Can two separate fares be added and combined in a single ticket?

 
Old Sep 26, 15, 1:46 pm
  #1  
txp
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Can two separate fares be added and combined in a single ticket?

Hi everyone,

Sometimes (A to B) plus (B to C) is significantly cheaper than (A to C). Such is the case when A=DFW, B=MAD, C=GVA. The business class (and first class) airfares on AA's DFW-MAD route are quite good right now. On the other hand, IB is running a discount on its intra-European "business class," so that DFW-MAD-GVA is significantly cheaper when bought separately when compared to pricing the DFW-GVA as a single trip.

I hesitate to do it as two different tickets because I would like to have a minimum of protection in case of missed connections caused by delays. Thus, my question:

Can I book DFW-(AA)-MAD-(IB)-GVA as a single ticket without paying the high fare for the DFW-GVA market, but instead paying the sum of the lower fares in the DFW-MAD and MAD-GVA markets?

If so, how do I do this, and would it protect me in case of missed connections?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
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Old Sep 26, 15, 1:54 pm
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If you want to get the lower price you will need to make 2 bookinsgs. If you book the though journey , the price of the through jounrey will be charged

AA does have a policy to protect in a misconnect on 2 separate tickets

If you do need to make changes , you will be paying the change fee applicable to both tickets - do check that the MAD-GVA even permits changes if this is a concern

Also, baggage allowance on each section may be different

Last edited by Dave Noble; Sep 26, 15 at 2:00 pm
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:07 pm
  #3  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
If you want to get the lower price you will need to make 2 bookinsgs. If you book the though journey , the price of the through journey will be charged
Thanks. I remember in the "old days" (late 1980s - ealry 1990s) before the internet and during the days of paper tickets that a full-service travel agent could do this and place the entire itinerary on a single ticket **within a single record** (and this is key). At the bottom of the paper ticket in the fare calculation box the agent would spell out how the fare was calculated. In a case like this, the agent would simply spell out the two separate fares.

In the case I mention above, AA is authorized to act as an agent for IB and issue a ticket for the MAD-GVA route. Why couldn't AA combine all in one ticket and to the pricing "by hand" like in the old days?

Would I be correct in assuming that the advent of the do-it-yourself travel has essentially eliminated the possibility of pricing itineraries "by hand" in similar situations? I wonder if one of the (few remaining) full-service travel agents could still do this today (I am thinking AMEX)?

If anyone has any experience with this, I would appreciate knowing about it.

Thanks again!
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:10 pm
  #4  
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With electronic ticketing , it is much harder to try and circumvent the charging the correct fare for the journey


Also, in this case, the IB fare would not permit it anyway. In the IB fare rules for its lowest fare ( in I class ) for MAD-GVA r/t , the fare rules states

Originally Posted by fare rules
END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED.
Combining the fares would require that end on end ticketing be permitted. None of IB's business fares for that route allow end on end ticketing and only the CIF fare ( which is an extra EUR750 ) would be possible to use for end-on-end ticketing

Last edited by Dave Noble; Sep 26, 15 at 2:18 pm
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:11 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post

AA does have a policy to protect in a misconnect on 2 separate tickets
This is what I was looking for. If this policy applies to my trip, I don't really need anything else. (I am sure that the "devil" is in the details and I wonder how to take advantage of this policy in case I miss a connecting flight.)

The change fees and differential baggage allowance rules are of lesser concerns. I was mostly worried about what happens if I miss my MAD-DFW flight because the IB flight comes in late. Would AA re-book me at no cost and in the same class of service? That would be awesome!

Thanks again!
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:11 pm
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As long as you are not the breaking the minimum connection time, you are protected. They'll throw you onto the next flight or rebook you on another routing.
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:13 pm
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Originally Posted by hiima View Post
As long as you are not the breaking the minimum connection time, you are protected if both are AA tickets. They'll throw you onto the next flight or rebook you on another routing.
This means that I would need to buy MAD-GVA from AA? I am not sure I can do this on AA.com. Maybe a travel agent can help?

Thanks!
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:21 pm
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Originally Posted by txp View Post
The change fees and differential baggage allowance rules are of lesser concerns. I was mostly worried about what happens if I miss my MAD-DFW flight because the IB flight comes in late. Would AA re-book me at no cost and in the same class of service? That would be awesome!

Thanks again!
AA may protect you, but may well only put you on an AA flight the next day. With a through ticket, if the GVA-MAD flight is impacted, IB will be required to get you to DFW and could rebook you on a flight from GVA-USA

Also, be aware, that this policy is not listed on the consumer AA site, only AA's guide to travel agents
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
AA may protect you, but may well only put you on an AA flight the next day. With a through ticket, if the GVA-MAD flight is impacted, IB will be required to get you to DFW and could rebook you on a flight from GVA-USA
Thanks. When it looks that one path is significantly cheaper than other there is usually a reason. Here the cheaper path is riskier. However, with the difference in fare, one could afford to spend a night in MAD in a nice place and still have a lot of savings leftover. So this seems the most prudent way to go for the return flight.

Thanks again for your help. Too bad we can't build fares "by hand" anymore...
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Old Sep 26, 15, 2:32 pm
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Originally Posted by txp View Post
Thanks. When it looks that one path is significantly cheaper than other there is usually a reason. Here the cheaper path is riskier. However, with the difference in fare, one could afford to spend a night in MAD in a nice place and still have a lot of savings leftover. So this seems the most prudent way to go for the return flight.

Thanks again for your help. Too bad we can't build fares "by hand" anymore...
As I mentioned, IB's fare rules in this case would not permit it to be on the same ticket so wouldn't be possible to build it by hand anyway

If you put an overnight stop in MAD, then the risk is nicely mitigated. I try and always have overnight stops if ever using separate fares - I like to minimise risks
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Old Sep 26, 15, 9:12 pm
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Overnight stops to mitigate risk?

Today I just flew MUC-LHR, the LHR-LAX, then LAX-SMF...on three separate tickets. I guess this should be booked as a 4 day journey?!?!?

At some point this advice becomes nonsensical. Avoiding 'risks' of misconnecting by putting in an extra day(s) of your life ... For a 200, 400 or 800 ticket. (Pick your currency)
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Old Sep 26, 15, 9:57 pm
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If the saving is not worth the extra time, I wouldn't be buying separate tickets

The cost of having to buy a new ticket if I misconnect is a risk I am not interested in taking

There are exceptions - If, for example, I know I would be on the same aeroplane ( such as CHC-SYD-BKK-DXB on EK ) then my concern drops to close to zero
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Old Sep 27, 15, 1:46 am
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A travel agent using Sabre would be your best support here. They can book AA and IB in one PNR, which leads to each airline seeing the big picture (i. e. the other airline's flights). Makes it much more likely that bags are checked through and that you get protected in case of irrops.

As others have mentioned, end-on-end ticketing would even allow for everything being put on one ticket, but in this case the specific fare rules prohibit it. Still, having one PNR is an advantage over separate bookings.

I just priced both options with random dates in October and found the difference to be about $3000. Seems worth taking the risk to me, but at least on the way back I'd suggest you take an evening flight from GVA and overnight at the airport in MAD. Otherwise, the connection time of less than two hours is risky, and missing that flight could be much worse than missing the one from MAD to GVA.
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Old Sep 27, 15, 3:49 am
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Originally Posted by jreichel View Post
A travel agent using Sabre would be your best support here. They can book AA and IB in one PNR, which leads to each airline seeing the big picture (i. e. the other airline's flights). Makes it much more likely that bags are checked through and that you get protected in case of irrops.

As others have mentioned, end-on-end ticketing would even allow for everything being put on one ticket, but in this case the specific fare rules prohibit it. Still, having one PNR is an advantage over separate bookings.
A TA will not be able to combine the 2 fares into 1 booking since the fares specifically prohibit it

It can only be done as 2 separate tickets and so wil not be on a single booking reference regardless
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Old Sep 27, 15, 4:03 am
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
A TA will not be able to combine the 2 fares into 1 booking since the fares specifically prohibit it

It can only be done as 2 separate tickets and so wil not be on a single booking reference regardless
No, they don't. Trust me, I'm an IATA travel agent and I do it every day. The fare rule you are citing prohibits combining the two fares in one ticket. Nevertheless, it is absolutely no problem and perfectly within the rules to combine the flights in one PNR and issue two tickets.

Such a PNR could look like this:

1 AA 36I 20OCT 2 DFWMAD SS1 1545 0800 21OCT 3
2 IB3480I 21OCT 3 MADGVA SS1 0935 1130
3 IB3493I 28OCT 3 GVAMAD SS1 1835 2040
4 AA 37I 29OCT 4 MADDFW SS1 1115 1600

And the tickets we'd issue would be one on 001 stock for segments 1 and 4 and another one on 075 stock for segments 2 and 3.

Granted, if you book online this would not be possible. But as soon as something semi-complicated like this scenario is needed a human agent produces a much better result.
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