ShortDog

I hope this doesn't portend a period of working to rule.

Microwave

Given that people have died as a result of doors being opened improperly causing slide deployment into a jetway (no I'm not overstating–yes it's happened multiple times in the past), I absolutely reject the suggestion that this is pathetic. The way to avoid tragic situations with the slide is to ensure everyone knows his role and fills it, every time, by the book.

rjw242

There's the context I was wondering about. Thanks!

pinniped

You forgot the final step in the process:

- FO has grievance filed against him by both the FA's union and the GA's union.

cmd320

Or maybe to just ensure the slide is disarmed properly to begin with. It isn't exactly rocket science. Once that component of the process is accomplished (which takes nowhere close to 5 minutes) it really shouldn't matter who opens the door then. If it were really that dangerous/labor intensive, I'm sure the FO wouldn't have strolled up and rotated the door open.

Microwave

No it's not rocket science, but it is life and death. If the GA isn't doing his job correctly, he could get himself or someone else injured or killed. It's not up to each FA to individually decide to deviate from procedure on such a vital item each time that GA doesn't know one of the safety procedures. This situation probably could have been resolved faster, but it does need to be handled carefully, if for no other reason than to ensure everyone has covered his/her bases. The slides should be treated as if they are loaded weapons, and procedures followed accordingly.

In any event, can you imagine how this would go if the pilots were trying to wing it like the GA?

"American 1234, make the left turn here at Bravo then hold short of Sierra."

"DFW ground, American 1234, I'm really liking the view here on Bravo, we're just going to keep on going, negative on holding short at Sierra."

"... ?!?!"

At the end of the day this is a safety issue, and while it should probably have been handled faster than 5 minutes of bickering, following the procedures as they're written every time is what keeps mishaps from costing money and taking lives.

theozz

So based on the fact that the FAs claimed they had received an email to say the policy had changed had they opened the door and something had happened like an injury, unlikely I know but that's them in trouble.

cmd320

There is a difference between purposely ignoring a procedure and applying common sense to a situation when the procedure has gotten you as far as it can. This is a situation where there is literally one important and very basic item that must be satisfied. Ensure the slide is disarmed/detached. Once the FAs had verified and the door was cracked the situation should have been over. Blindly following a procedure without applying situational awareness can be just as dangerous as blatantly disregarding a procedure in the first place.

jmastron

Don't disagree that procedures should be followed because there is safety involved, but in this case one of 3 things went wrong here:

1) The GA was wrong and should be written up and retrained to do the job properly. Sounds like consensus here is that this is most likely.

2) The FAs were wrong...and should be retrained.

3) AA has a major procedural or communication issue that the FAA should investigate and deal with to avoid worse issues. Imagine if the confusion were opposite -- FAs pushing the door open while a GA is too close and gets caught/injured...or pilots and ground crew (or ATC) following different procedures causing a mishap etc. AA is responsible for ensuring that all of their employees know the procedures, and when they change how that change will be phased in.

Microwave

I genuinely don't want to drive this thread into the ditch but clearly there isn't just one basic item to satisfy... If the only thing that had to happen was to disarm the door, the FAs would open the door 100% of the time: they're always able to tell if a door is armed, so they can always ensure it's disarmed and then open it. Easy as pie. In reality though the GA is responsible for ensuring the jetway (or stairs, or ramp) is properly positioned before the door can be opened, which is the main reason why the GA ever opens the door (otherwise the FAs would do it, as above).

So I'll grant that an improperly positioned jetway isn't likely to kill anyone–though it could cause injury and damage to the aircraft–and I'll grant that it shouldn't have been a 5 minute Mexican standoff between GA, FAs and pilots, but the procedures are there for a reason and someone ignoring them on such a critical point in each flight, for any reason, is itself an ongoing safety hazard. I hope there's enough middle ground in there for both of us!

Based on the facts as presented in this thread, this smacks of #1 all the way to me. If #3 were at play, given the number of flights FTers take every day, we'd surely see this more often.

bchandler02

Doesn't the captain (and then FO) outrank the people behind the cockpit door?

I'd actually follow up to AA CS on this one, for multiple reasons:
1) Let them know that the FA and GA both need some training here
2) Give kudos to the FO for resolving the situation, in case they do try to come back on him/her.

rjw242

Just to follow up - I sent a quick note describing the situation to Customer Relations and got a personalized response a couple hours later. Said they would forward it to the management of the in-flight and airport customer service departments.

And before anyone asks, no compensation requested or given

cmd320

Yes, this is correct.The captain and with input and consultation from the FO, is the final decision making authority on board the aircraft.

BA4EVER

I witnessed a different but similar-feeling situation at DCA a month or two back. An FA and GA loudly arguing about procedure during boarding....I think with regards to who decides when to send the pax. GA said something and FA replied, "I'm not scared of you."

Really professional.

FAs turned out to be genuinely poor, needing prompting to serve beverages for F on a stifling hot plane after we were sent to the penalty box to sit for an hour due to a JFK ground stop. I insisted, and they grumbled something about needing to check with the captain....and then they finally got off their rear ends.

I don't know what is going on with AA crews right now, but they are rapidly approaching United-esque levels of mediocrity.

rjw242

The interaction I saw ended similarly - once the door was opened, the GA and FA had a heated exchange, GA said something like "You know I'm gonna report you. I'll have you written up," and the FA was like, "Go right ahead."

Could be some behind-the-curtain drama at DCA...