AwardBee

Was flying AA85 JFK-SFO yesterday at the end of a SIN-HKG-JFK-SFO award in F (I know I'm crazy, but had to try the transcon in F).

Plane was 2 hours late to take-off due to waiting for winds in SFO to die down a bit. Nonetheless we boarded the plane almost on time, and simply waited on the tarmac since they needed our gate for an inbound flight.

By the time we approached SFO, winds were still high, over 40mph, and captain said the A321 can only handle 30mph-ish.

We circled SFO for about an hour waiting for weather to improve. Then we started running low on fuel, so decision was made to divert to SJC.

It turns out winds were pretty high in SJC also, and it was one of the scariest landings ever. Plane was careening left and right, honestly thought we might become a rare statistic...

We landed (phew), and the plane sat in a cargo area for at least an hour while we waited for refueling and an attempt to fly to SFO.

Then some pax came to the front, one guy was arguing with the captain and crew using some pretty strong language.

Other pax were complaining about kids, their dog being in the luggage hold, etc.

Eventually the decision was to let us off the plane at SJC, then they'd arrange for shuttles to take us to SFO.

The shuttles were all lined up outside the luggage area and pax were boarded, but couldn't depart until an AA employee provided them with vouchers.

The first shuttle (which I was lucky enough to get on), arrived at SFO around 11:30pm, around 4.5 hours after scheduled landing of AA85.

I'm thankful we landed safely, despite the circus of events. I wanted to try the transcon in F, and I got about 9 hours' worth, including time sitting in the seat on the ground And probably one of the few times I'll be able to fly JFK-SJC on AA!

JDiver

One problem with SFO is that anything below strictly VFR CAVU type weather, due to non-standard runway separation they must close one runway of each runway pair. And if there's seriously strong and/or gusty wind, you might be down to one runway for arrivals and departures.

One thing that hasn't changed so much over the decades of commercial flight: weather can still screw things up mightily.

Often1

Sounds like it was pretty well handled by AA and not a circus. Lucky the diversion was to somewhere within an easy drive to SFO.

Cofyknsult

And what did you think of F in the A321 ? I find it equal to the new J on the 777-300 and not worth the premium over the A321 J.

nrr

All of the items described by OP were weather related and out of AA's control, except for the vouchers.
I was on a flt., due to pax illness, the plane made a landing in an airport AA didn't fly in or out of. We would have been airborne much sooner, but some paperwork kept us extra 30 minutes.
There was a pseudo documentary (15+ years ago), a plane was hijacked and they were prepared to blow up the plane if they weren't given clearance to take off--they needed more fuel, airline had no fuel rights, even though it meant destruction of the plane, they were not going to get fuel...one pax had a Shell CC., that was OK for fueling.
Sometimes "technicalities" get in the way of common sense.

FlyerChrisK

30-something mph winds are all any commercial airliner can handle for crosswind landings.

I'm still not sure why this is being described as a circus. They got you there in a reasonably timely fashion considering the weather and the alternative would be to cancel the flight altogether.

DaveInSFV

I was departing SFO to LAX last night. The plane was rocking and rolling in the wind - so much so that maintenance could not fix the broken navigation issue - so they towed the plane, with all PAX on board to an area of the tarmac where we were sheltered from the wind, and the fixed the plane after two hours. We then spent another hour in LA waiting to taxi to the gate - LAX was on reverse flight path - and another mess. PAX handled the three hour delay in their stride - most heading to LA only or connecting to Asia/South Pacific.

wrp96

On the UA board they posted that SFO was only using RWY1 yesterday which is apparently only used once or twice a year because of the winds - and because it's used so rarely, doesn't have the same navaids as the usual runways, making things even worse than normal in SFO

Exec_Plat

Except knowingly boarding the plane to have you sit on the tarmac for two hours....

If I'm in F of course I dont mind.

AwardBee

It felt like a circus at times because neither the crew nor captain knew what was going on or going to happen. At one point one pax was arguing with the captain to get off the plane, and actually swore at an FA for trying to get him back to his seat. Captain later left cockpit (with plane on ground in SJC) to talk to said pax, although no apparent consequences for the pax.

A321 F was almost identical hard product wise to the 777-300ER J as others have mentioned with a few minor details. The seats don't fit together quite as nicely, with gaps between successive seats, and a sizeable gap between your console and the window, which I attribute to the curvature of the plane.

Service was excellent. I mean, amazing. The FAs cared about arranginf the napkin and nuts on the tray table in that Cathay sort of way. They came around constantly to offer more drinks. A snack galley was avaiable on the bulkhead platform, similar to international J. Food was iffy, a very dried out piece of beef, but overall dinner is served on higher quality dishes, similar to what you'd expect in international F.

The F cabin had 3 pax, with remaining seats used as crew rests and 1 pax who was a traveling employee.

Overall, quite a nice experience, and something I'd tack on to the end of an international F trip just for a little joyride. But that's because I love flying

bdemaria

Agree w/other that "circus" may not be the most appropriate term. SFO is notorious for weather-related delays. Add that to holiday travel - characterized by stressed pax and unseasoned travelers and it comes as no surprise that one pax got angry. He's lucky he didn't get arrested.

In many ways, esp. w/regard to weather/on time performance, SJC is a superior airport to SFO but AA doesn't have a large presence here so it took a bit of time to get shuttles arranged to accommodate transport of a full plane of passengers between airports.

gcuk

So in summary, weather at SFO caused a 2 hour departure delay from JFK. Flight was 'quite a nice experience'. Continuing high winds at SFO meant circling for an hour after which the captain determined it was unsafe to land so diverted to SJC. A handful of passengers were unhappy about this but arrangements were made for transfers to SFO by shuttles and the total arrival delay was 4.5 hours.
I wouldn't call this a 'circus'. In the circumstances, it was probably a good result.
To be honest, the only concern I have from your report is why the idiot who was arguing with the captain and swearing at the flight attendant wasn't arrested and added to the banned passenger list.

JDiver

Slightly off topic, since the SJC runway extension some years ago, it's become very welcoming to diverted SFO traffic. Prior to that, the vaunted SJC-NRT MD-11 had to depart SJC, land at OAK for mission fueling prior to stretching its legs across the Pacific.

Many of us wish SJC would receive more focus from AA again. NH now flies SJC-TYO with a 787, which AA will finally put into service this year.

The bus shuttle thing isn't so easy to arrange; not many companies have the required busses idle (poor economics), so that always complicates issues already provided an additional level of difficulty at airports with diminished AA presence.

Some years ago, when UA a was operating a new 763 DEN-SMF (advantage to me was winter punctuated by valley fog) with what was then new Cat III navaids, SMF shut down from fog. The Cat III aircraft and ILS capability didn't matter, as neither pilot wasn't qualified for Cat III operations.

We had plenty of fuel, so we flew for a few hours waiting for the fog to clear (not likely - as the night wore on, it's likely to only get foggier as the temperature declines). We landed at SFO, and it took another couple of hours to organize busses. And though in those days the busses had to pass within a block of downtown Sacramento where several of us could more conveniently secure transport home, they insisted we drive to SMF.

The flight, due to arrive SMF ~11 pm, got us to SMF by bus some time after 7 am.

SFO has nonstandard runway separation, and attempts to rectify that have consistently been voted down by local residents. Bad for passengers during bad weather episodes.