AA Rival at JFK Jet Blue does great job during outage!!
Aug 16, 2003, 11:25 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: East Hampton/Dorado Beach
Posts: 591
AA Rival at JFK Jet Blue does great job during outage!!
Looks like Jet Blue managed to get out 246 JFK flights during the power outage.
Jet Blue cancels only 22 flights.
WOW!!! Good job to Blue!
I guess another reason to get rid of all our AAdvantage Miles....can AA survive with this can do effort over at Terminal 6 ?
Jet Blue cancels only 22 flights.
WOW!!! Good job to Blue!
I guess another reason to get rid of all our AAdvantage Miles....can AA survive with this can do effort over at Terminal 6 ?
Aug 16, 2003, 12:30 pm
#2
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Siesta Key
Programs: AA EXP-1.6MM, Hilton Diamond, ManU & Chicago Bears #1 Fan
Posts: 9,697
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 747:
Looks like Jet Blue managed to get out 246 JFK flights during the power outage.
Jet Blue cancels only 22 flights.
WOW!!! Good job to Blue!
I guess another reason to get rid of all our AAdvantage Miles....can AA survive with this can do effort over at Terminal 6 ?</font>
Looks like Jet Blue managed to get out 246 JFK flights during the power outage.
Jet Blue cancels only 22 flights.
WOW!!! Good job to Blue!
I guess another reason to get rid of all our AAdvantage Miles....can AA survive with this can do effort over at Terminal 6 ?</font>
I did call JetBlue looking for a reservation to London next month, but as nice and apologetic as the reservation lady was, she just couldn't do it for me. She did suggest I call AA!
Aug 16, 2003, 12:48 pm
#3
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA - Nearly 4 Million Actual Miles Flown
Posts: 5,522
Seriously, this is was a very interesting observation. Friday, after the outage, AA still canceled all their LAX and LGB flights (didn't check SNA) out of JFK. B6 operated all of theirs to LGB, albeit late on many. But the fact is if you were flying B6 yesterday to/from JFK and the Los Angeles area, you would have gotten to your destination.
Aug 16, 2003, 1:07 pm
#4
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Programs: AA EXP & 3MM, SPG GLD
Posts: 1,215
Hmmmm .... a few thoughts come to mind.
JFK = Jet Blue's home base
1)more flexibility with extra crews on hand when over work hour limits or conecting crew doesn't arrive - therefore can tolerate longer delays
2)more flexibility with available aircraft when incoming flights don't arrive on time or at all b/c of "parked aircraft"
3)better coordination with resources because of smaller operations and happens to be central hub of operations
JFK = Jet Blue's home base
1)more flexibility with extra crews on hand when over work hour limits or conecting crew doesn't arrive - therefore can tolerate longer delays
2)more flexibility with available aircraft when incoming flights don't arrive on time or at all b/c of "parked aircraft"
3)better coordination with resources because of smaller operations and happens to be central hub of operations
Aug 16, 2003, 1:33 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: East Hampton/Dorado Beach
Posts: 591
Today is Saturday....and still alot of flights not operating!!
First two flights to LAX did not go
Only one flight operating today to SFO.
That's alot of unhappy passengers !
First two flights to LAX did not go
Only one flight operating today to SFO.
That's alot of unhappy passengers !
Aug 16, 2003, 2:55 pm
#6
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ft Worth, Texas
Programs: AA/UA/BA
Posts: 2,850
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 747:
Today is Saturday....and still alot of flights not operating!!
First two flights to LAX did not go
Only one flight operating today to SFO.
That's alot of unhappy passengers !
</font>
Today is Saturday....and still alot of flights not operating!!
First two flights to LAX did not go
Only one flight operating today to SFO.
That's alot of unhappy passengers !
</font>
Are you a Jet Blue customer? Can you upgrade to international F on B6? Can you travel around the world on interline partners such as Cathay Pacific and British Airways?
AA's flight schedule is delayed primarily due to crews and aircraft being out of position. Additionally, the power only came on in certain terminals at JFK, and T8/9 were not in amongst those initially, hence B6 could get their aircraft out. Also, AA aircraft are dispatched from Systems Operations Control (SOC) in Dallas, so obviously, without power, those flights couldn't be dispatched. Finally, remember the scale of AA's operation. After CO, they're the 2nd biggest carrier in the NY area and certainly offer many more flights than B6.
[This message has been edited by 777Brit (edited 08-16-2003).]
Aug 16, 2003, 3:46 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Slackerville, FL USA
Posts: 1,844
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 747:
Looks like Jet Blue managed to get out 246 JFK flights during the power outage.
Jet Blue cancels only 22 flights.
WOW!!! Good job to Blue!
I guess another reason to get rid of all our AAdvantage Miles....can AA survive with this can do effort over at Terminal 6 ?</font>
Looks like Jet Blue managed to get out 246 JFK flights during the power outage.
Jet Blue cancels only 22 flights.
WOW!!! Good job to Blue!
I guess another reason to get rid of all our AAdvantage Miles....can AA survive with this can do effort over at Terminal 6 ?</font>
AA was not shut down because of man power. There were plenty of FA's and Pilots ready to take off and plenty of agents, rampers and mechanics ready to do their jobs as well.
The power outage made it impossible to run the jetbridges and to scan all the bags,cargo, and people.
Does the Jet Blue terminal have major generators that made everything work?
Did they hand check every bag/person/cargo palette?
How exactly did they get all the planes out?
My biggest question, which I think should be the concern of all, was:
did Jet Blue curtail any necessary security screenings to make sure almost all of their departures got out during the outage?
Aug 16, 2003, 3:52 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: East Hampton/Dorado Beach
Posts: 591
I am NOT a Jet Blue Customer!!
I am true blue AMERICAN....
AAdvantage since 1981....7 Million Miles
and EXP for about 4 Years now.
I am just amazed American has not risen to this challenge as it has in earlier years.
I am also amazed at how things have changed.
Used to be Pan Am was too big to get going and American would outshine them.
Now American has become too old and slow.
Maybe this is the circle of life in the airline business.
Jet Blue has the same job as American....to get people to their destinations safely and on-time. Jet Blue had the same crisis to deal with.
IMHO American did not come through for its JFK customers....and in years past (blizzards, etc) it always did!
I am true blue AMERICAN....
AAdvantage since 1981....7 Million Miles
and EXP for about 4 Years now.
I am just amazed American has not risen to this challenge as it has in earlier years.
I am also amazed at how things have changed.
Used to be Pan Am was too big to get going and American would outshine them.
Now American has become too old and slow.
Maybe this is the circle of life in the airline business.
Jet Blue has the same job as American....to get people to their destinations safely and on-time. Jet Blue had the same crisis to deal with.
IMHO American did not come through for its JFK customers....and in years past (blizzards, etc) it always did!
Aug 16, 2003, 4:58 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SFO
Programs: AA
Posts: 38
First let me say for the record I really want AA to be around for many years to come, I like AA and make AA my first choice in airline travel. However this isn't a tonga line and I feel AA needs to really put Customer Service up front and make it a Top Priority Once Again!!!
Yes there was many unhappy passangers and the bottom line is they failed to get to their destination PERIOD. They have APU for the engines, Generators for 3-10% of the gates, Why Not? Any plane not flying is zero money being made.
Everything is computer controlled including bagage barcodes, what happens when we go back to the old days of manual operations. Why is everything all or nothing these days.
Just think 50 million people effected by only 3-4 minutes. Think how much money was lost with cancelled sales just for the airlines.
The FA and Pilots are great, probably the best in the industry, however, the computer systems or so OLD and OUTDATED, The software controls the Gate Agents, just try doing a bump voucher, its ten minutes of typing for one seat.
Micro Managing didn't work then and it still doesn't work now. Let each gate agent have a lead Terminal Supervisor and empower the employess with some control over their operations. I may wrong but I thought a full flight with all the seats filled means more money for AA. When did all that change?
Yes there was many unhappy passangers and the bottom line is they failed to get to their destination PERIOD. They have APU for the engines, Generators for 3-10% of the gates, Why Not? Any plane not flying is zero money being made.
Everything is computer controlled including bagage barcodes, what happens when we go back to the old days of manual operations. Why is everything all or nothing these days.
Just think 50 million people effected by only 3-4 minutes. Think how much money was lost with cancelled sales just for the airlines.
The FA and Pilots are great, probably the best in the industry, however, the computer systems or so OLD and OUTDATED, The software controls the Gate Agents, just try doing a bump voucher, its ten minutes of typing for one seat.
Micro Managing didn't work then and it still doesn't work now. Let each gate agent have a lead Terminal Supervisor and empower the employess with some control over their operations. I may wrong but I thought a full flight with all the seats filled means more money for AA. When did all that change?
Aug 16, 2003, 5:00 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,695
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AAFA:
1. Does the Jet Blue terminal have major generators that made everything work?
2. Did they hand check every bag/person/cargo palette?
3. How exactly did they get all the planes out?
4. My biggest question, which I think should be the concern of all, was:
did Jet Blue curtail any necessary security screenings to make sure almost all of their departures got out during the outage?
</font>
1. Does the Jet Blue terminal have major generators that made everything work?
2. Did they hand check every bag/person/cargo palette?
3. How exactly did they get all the planes out?
4. My biggest question, which I think should be the concern of all, was:
did Jet Blue curtail any necessary security screenings to make sure almost all of their departures got out during the outage?
</font>
From what I have read and heard from a friend that flew them friday morning this is what i can tell you.
1. No, very very limited lighting was the only thing the generators provided. My friend said it was alot of flashlights for checkin and people walked the tarmac to board via airstairs. The tarmac was lit with baggage tugs. He also said that they rented a bunch of port-o-lets because the bathrooms were not working.
2. Yes, TSA checked everyone as a selectee by hand, including checked baggage. So it appears eveyone got up close and personal with the hand wand.
3. The operation went right through the night.
4. I don't know, but I doubt since the TSA controls security I doubt it.
I am flying BA (gasp!) tomorrow night out of JFK; I might go over and ask some questions...
Aug 16, 2003, 11:55 pm
#11
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA - Nearly 4 Million Actual Miles Flown
Posts: 5,522
From MSNBC.com....
American Airlines, the largest U.S. carrier, said 30 flights were canceled on Saturday compared with 295 on Friday.
Northwest Airlines said 15 flights were canceled on Saturday versus 174 on Friday. Delta Air Lines canceled 14 flights. JetBlue Airways canceled no flights on Saturday and only 22 of a scheduled 268 flights during the entire ordeal.
American Airlines, the largest U.S. carrier, said 30 flights were canceled on Saturday compared with 295 on Friday.
Northwest Airlines said 15 flights were canceled on Saturday versus 174 on Friday. Delta Air Lines canceled 14 flights. JetBlue Airways canceled no flights on Saturday and only 22 of a scheduled 268 flights during the entire ordeal.
Aug 17, 2003, 7:51 am
#12
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LI, NY
Programs: AA PLT, AAdv since Day One
Posts: 2,682
By Friday, power was restored to T1 through T6 (Jet Blue is in T6) at JFK. There was no power at that time to T7 through T9. AA is in T8 and T9, whcih are also in the middle of a major reconstruction. I am sure the last thing AA wanted to do on a summer weekend with all the west coast, Carribean and European routes they dominate and probably had high and profitable loads out of JFK was to cancel all or most of their JFK flights on Friday.
I wonder how many flights B6 would have gotten off of they were the ones without power?
I wonder how many flights B6 would have gotten off of they were the ones without power?
Aug 17, 2003, 8:08 am
#13
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,695
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by inlanikai:
By Friday, power was restored to T1 through T6 (Jet Blue is in T6) at JFK. There was no power at that time to T7 through T9. AA is in T8 and T9, whcih are also in the middle of a major reconstruction. I am sure the last thing AA wanted to do on a summer weekend with all the west coast, Carribean and European routes they dominate and probably had high and profitable loads out of JFK was to cancel all or most of their JFK flights on Friday.
I wonder how many flights B6 would have gotten off of they were the ones without power? </font>
By Friday, power was restored to T1 through T6 (Jet Blue is in T6) at JFK. There was no power at that time to T7 through T9. AA is in T8 and T9, whcih are also in the middle of a major reconstruction. I am sure the last thing AA wanted to do on a summer weekend with all the west coast, Carribean and European routes they dominate and probably had high and profitable loads out of JFK was to cancel all or most of their JFK flights on Friday.
I wonder how many flights B6 would have gotten off of they were the ones without power? </font>
Power was restored at t6 at ~7pm
They cancelled only 22 flights in 27 hours of no power.
Aug 17, 2003, 10:15 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Oceanside, NY USA
Posts: 1,128
CodeBlue does everything right! Just ask them 
Seriously though, I was in PDX Friday, and I thought the AA EXP desk did a good job in helping me re-route to New York. They looked at every option I threw at them, including a re-route on Alaska to SFO to catch the redeye to JFK. I ended up flying PDX-STL-DCA and overnighting at the DCA Hilton to catch an early flight to New York.
And who was on this AA flight to New York? Three B6 pilots who were trying to return to work. Ironic.
Seriously though, I was in PDX Friday, and I thought the AA EXP desk did a good job in helping me re-route to New York. They looked at every option I threw at them, including a re-route on Alaska to SFO to catch the redeye to JFK. I ended up flying PDX-STL-DCA and overnighting at the DCA Hilton to catch an early flight to New York.
And who was on this AA flight to New York? Three B6 pilots who were trying to return to work. Ironic.
Aug 17, 2003, 10:29 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LI, NY
Programs: AA PLT, AAdv since Day One
Posts: 2,682
Congrats to B6 if they were able to get things done on Friday at JFK. More power to them.
But .... it should not be used as a reason to suggest that AA "failed" at JFK by comparison.
Regardless of when the main power was restored at the various terminals, they are very different operations. Just some of the differences to consider.
* B6 has no international operations. AA is dependent on the US Immigration and the Customs departments to support their int'l arrivals at T8. Were they on duty?
* AA has at least 6 different aircraft types to support at JFK with different crew qualifications, some needing int'l qualifications. B6 has one type and domestic only.
But .... it should not be used as a reason to suggest that AA "failed" at JFK by comparison.
Regardless of when the main power was restored at the various terminals, they are very different operations. Just some of the differences to consider.
* B6 has no international operations. AA is dependent on the US Immigration and the Customs departments to support their int'l arrivals at T8. Were they on duty?
* AA has at least 6 different aircraft types to support at JFK with different crew qualifications, some needing int'l qualifications. B6 has one type and domestic only.