MSC Rule for ticket with legs over multiple days

 
Old May 2, 14, 8:04 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 9
MSC Rule for ticket with legs over multiple days

I booked the following on one ticket from aa.com: (not really sure what you would call this type of ticket)

IST-LHR
BCN-LHR-DFW-AUS (on a separate day)

The IST-LHR and BCN-LHR legs don't show up as AA codeshares, rather BA flight #s. I'm AA Gold and purchased before the April 8 baggage changes. Upon check-out, the website showed that my free baggage allowance was 1 checked bag. I thought it possibly could have been 2 since I'm crossing IATA Areas on AA (LHR-DFW) and IST-LHR is within the same IATA Area. Though, I'm not really sure how the IST-LHR leg plays into it since it's about 2 weeks before the other part.

From what I read, the rule states: The MSC is, "for travel between two or more IATA Areas, the carrier performing carriage on the first sector that crosses from one area to another."

I was just hoping to clarify.
PurpleMonkey is offline  
Old May 2, 14, 8:38 pm
  #2  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,270
Under US DOT rules, if the ticket touches the USA, which this one does, the allowance for the first segment becomes the minimum allowance for the entire itinerary. What is unclear to me from your post is whether it is AA or BA which is the marketing carrier and it is the marketing carrier's rules which will apply.
Often1 is offline  
Old May 2, 14, 8:44 pm
  #3  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 41,592
The 1st portion of your journey is with BA on IST-LHR ; as such the BA baggage rules will apply. For the journey your are doing at that time there is no crossing between IATA areas due to the stopover

Since the journey includes travel to the USA, then this baggage allowance applies to the whole itinerary

BA's allowance is listed at http://www.britishairways.com/en-au/...age-allowances

Assuming that you are travelling in economy class and that you are not in a Y booking class, then indeed the checked allowance is 1 piece
Dave Noble is offline  
Old May 2, 14, 9:06 pm
  #4  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 9
Yup, the ticket is in Y.

Thanks for clarifying
PurpleMonkey is offline  
Old May 2, 14, 9:45 pm
  #5  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Santa Ana
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Under US DOT rules, if the ticket touches the USA, which this one does, the allowance for the first segment becomes the minimum allowance for the entire itinerary. What is unclear to me from your post is whether it is AA or BA which is the marketing carrier and it is the marketing carrier's rules which will apply.
That is correct.

The U.S. regulations do not require airlines to follow the "most significant carrier" rule. The IATA does, however. Under that rule, AA is the MSC because of the LHR-DFW flight. Stopovers make zero difference, I.e., are wholly irrelevant.
Leopold is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 3:09 am
  #6  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 41,592
Originally Posted by Leopold View Post
That is correct.

The U.S. regulations do not require airlines to follow the "most significant carrier" rule. The IATA does, however. Under that rule, AA is the MSC because of the LHR-DFW flight. Stopovers make zero difference, I.e., are wholly irrelevant.
No it isn't . It would be the MSC if the passenger was connecting. Since the 1st part of journey is simply within Europe on BA, then BA's rules apply

There is no MSC calculation to be made since there is only 1 carrier and 1 sector

If the journey was to anywhere other than US, then the baggage allowance would be recalculated at each check in; since it is a trip which includes the USA, then the baggage allowance in force at the start of the journey applies to the whole journey
Dave Noble is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 3:46 am
  #7  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Santa Ana
Posts: 113
It is one ticket, per the OP. Stopovers do not matter. You are wholly incorrect.
Leopold is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 3:58 am
  #8  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 41,592
Originally Posted by Leopold View Post
It is one ticket, per the OP. Stopovers do not matter. You are wholly incorrect.


The US DOT defines international journeys to/from the US as travel that contains more than one country (international travel) with the origin, destination or furthest checked point being in the US. Exceptions imposed by the Department of Transportation of the US Government will be in place.

The US, for the purposes of baggage selection criteria, consists of the continental United States and US Territories - Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Wake Islands and Kiribati, including Canton and Gilbert Island.


1.For journeys to/from the US, the rules of the first marketing carrier on the journey apply, provided that the first marketing carrier is specified on ATPCO’s (Airline Tariff Publishing Company) published list of US DOT Carriers (defined as carriers where general rules tariffs to/from the US have been filed).


2.If the first marketing carrier is not specified on ATPCO’s published list of US DOT Carriers, then the rules of the very next marketing carrier on the journey that is specified on ATPCO’s list of US DOT Carriers apply.


3.Once the first marketing carrier is identified (through steps 1 and 2 above), it is the first marketing carrier’s policy to opt for the rules of the Most Significant marketing Carrier (MSC) for the journey or retain the first marketing carrier’s own baggage policy.


BA is the 1st marketing carrier for the journey and can apply its rules or that of the MSC. Ba is perfectly entitled to impose its rules and with a stopover in place would not expect it to apply AA's

Last edited by Dave Noble; May 3, 14 at 4:04 am
Dave Noble is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 4:01 am
  #9  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Santa Ana
Posts: 113
You constantly ignore the fact that this is one ticket that involves multiple airlines and travel to the USA. In those circumstances, stopovers are completely irrelevant. Per IATA, the MSC rule applies when determining the baggage allowance for the entire ticket. And per the U.S., the baggage allowance for the first segment is the minimum for all segments on the ticket.
Leopold is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 4:19 am
  #10  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 41,592
Originally Posted by Leopold View Post
You constantly ignore the fact that this is one ticket that involves multiple airlines and travel to the USA. In those circumstances, stopovers are completely irrelevant. Per IATA, the MSC rule applies when determining the baggage allowance for the entire ticket. And per the U.S., the baggage allowance for the first segment is the minimum for all segments on the ticket.
For travel to USA the 1st marketing carrier chooses whether to

(a) apply its allowances or
(b) apply those of the MSC

For (nearly) all other itineraries , the MSC is applicable; for US, it is dependant on what the carrier chooses to select

I have quoted the rules verbatim from Cathay's website ( see http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_A...r-journey.html ) which provides quite decent details on the rules

Last edited by Dave Noble; May 3, 14 at 4:28 am
Dave Noble is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 10:09 am
  #11  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Santa Ana
Posts: 113
You do not understand the rules. For a multicarrier ticket, a violation of IATA rules happens when any of those carriers ignores the MSC concept. It does not matter whether the ticket includes travel to or from the USA. The U.S. government has nothing to do with IATA rules.
Leopold is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 10:53 am
  #12  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,270
IATA is a trade group for the air carriers. Very useful for many things and ultimately helpful to the consumer in many ways because its conventions -- let's not elevate a trade group's internal policies to "rules" -- allow for seamless travel across borders and carriers.

But, when a government makes a rule and that rule can be applied to a carrier, it is law. Thus, DOT rules regarding baggage, EC rules regarding delay compensation, US tarmac delays and the like.

All of this works well because even though OP's first segment is not to or within the USA, it is on a carrier, BA, which serves the USA and has agreed to be bound by US law as part of obtaining landing rights in the USA. Taking it out of the context of MSC, same thing for AA on a delay. X EU, AA would be bound by EC 261/2004. Inbound from the USA, it is not. How can the EU exercise authority over a non-EU carrier? Easily. No agreement to abide by EU law = no landing rights in the EU.
Often1 is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 12:56 pm
  #13  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Santa Ana
Posts: 113
Technically, the U.S. federal government has regulations, not rules. But you are right when implying that too many here have elevated IATA to the status of a governmental entity. It is not, which is why the U.S. DoT takes no position on whether IATA's MSC rule must be followed by airlines.
Leopold is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 1:25 pm
  #14  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 41,592
Originally Posted by Leopold View Post
You do not understand the rules. For a multicarrier ticket, a violation of IATA rules happens when any of those carriers ignores the MSC concept. It does not matter whether the ticket includes travel to or from the USA. The U.S. government has nothing to do with IATA rules.
I am fully aware of the rules and know that the luggage rules for USA are as stated as per the CX site. Some airlines apply their own allowances, some defer to MSC. What is required for travel to the USA is that the luggage allowance stays the same for the entire trip

The explanation given on the CX site is accurate
Dave Noble is offline  
Old May 3, 14, 1:49 pm
  #15  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Santa Ana
Posts: 113
Which IATA members ignore the MSC concept when it is otherwise applicable? That would be good information for us to know. Do AA or BA do that?
Leopold is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: