Upgraded!

How many "guess the offense" posts do you think we can squeeze in before thread closure?

PM me who the winner is and I'll award a prize of 10k AA miles from my account, winner just pays a $100 "fee" to process the prize .

Sounds like this goes a bit deeper than simply trying to game the system in the "normal" way. If the dates given were right, that means it took about 15mos for AA to catch onto/build its case against the OP so this is probably a long-running "issue" that someone went to great lengths to conceal. Seems like it may have involved others as well, including additional cardholders/business account.

EagleTX

First off, thank you all for the great feedbacks.
Based on your comments here are more facts:
From what I can determine from the limited details provided by AA analyst J. C. my (and my wife) AAdvantage accounts are being closed because I returned purchases that were made with my Citibank AA credit card back in 2012/2013.
First email from AA Analyst J. C. came in on Tuesday 3/4/14 – asking me for proof of purchase and proof of payment from back 2012/2013 (which I don’t have as the AA Citibank Cards are closed and its old purchases) – We had 2 emails exchange (very polite on my end) and “boom” on Friday 3/7/2014 5PM – she send me an email telling me:
“Regrettably, we have been unable to resolve the conflict between the facts of our investigation regarding this matter. AAdvantage miles are earned on purchases, except returned goods and services, cash advances, convenience checks, transferred balances, credits, fees, and interest charges.

Accordingly, from American Airlines conditions of carriage:

Fraudulent, Fictitious and Abusive Bookings: Fraudulent, fictitious and/or abusive bookings are prohibited. These types of bookings are defined as any bookings made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named passenger. Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to gain access to airport facilities, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.

Furthermore , the terms and conditions from the AAdvantage Program:

• Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage program rules) is subject to appropriate administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets, and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as cancellation of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage program. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorney fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
• American Airlines reserves the right to audit any and all accounts at any time and without notice to the member to ensure compliance with AAdvantage program rules and applicable conditions of carriage and/or tariffs. In the event that an audit reveals discrepancies or violations, the processing of AAdvantage awards, mileage accrual and summaries may be delayed until the discrepancies or violations are resolved satisfactorily to American Airlines. Pending such resolution, members may be prohibited from redeeming mileage credits for an AAdvantage award or ticket as determined in American's sole discretion.

As mileage reflected in your account was earned on refunded goods and/or services violating the AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, effective March 7, 2014, account xxx has been closed. All membership benefits associated with this account, including all remaining miles and issued award tickets, are forfeited. You are no longer eligible to participate in the AAdvantage program.
”


I did made some AA flights purchases back 2012 2013, then for some business reason I had to cancel - and yes the cards go closed some months after. I would say total returned for both wouldn't be much then 100k.
I do not dispute that I did indeed need to return some purchases (due to some planning changes) and I fully expected any miles that were credited to me for the original purchases to be subsequently deducted from my AAdvantage account. Apparently this did not happen; the miles were never deducted from my account. To that, I lay the blame on Citibank, as I cannot see anywhere in the AAdvantage program terms and conditions where the AAdvantage member is required to return the miles, in fact, I don’t even see a method a member can return the miles!

I can’t believe AA penalizes loyal customers due to an obvious bank oversight.

Total miles lost: about 900K – and I just checked also they canceled my already issued awards tickets (awards ticket that I booked 6months back for my whole family, international trip – another 400k miles) – and losing my Gold for life Status – and about 30 Award upgrades.

As I said, this AA Analyst J. C. didn’t look at the whole picture… and put me in a situation that I don’t know how to come out from!!

My international awards trip canceled… that is a major hit!!

What is my best resource to get this resolve in a more professional way and satisfactory to all?

I have the impression AA don’t care if you are loyal customer or not.

Thanks again.

PainCorp

So we're talking about $90k in purchases that were never credited back to your Citi card, correct? Returned, but not to your Citi card?

JonNYC

They take this very, very, very seriously-- ask the member here who they billed for like over $50,000 (might have been closer to $75k) for the loss of revenue from such bookings.

EagleTX

I got my 2 Million marks after they canceled the reduced the lifetime program for only flown miles.

bdemaria

Could you please clarify "wouldn't be much then 100k" as I sense a dropped word or two here on a very salient point. Are you saying that you returned/cancelled somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000 worth of merchandise and netted c. 100,000 miles. That is not an inconsequential amount and you acknowledge knowing the mileage tally was incorrect. If you had an extra 100K in your checking account would you really think it was OK to spend it, and that it would never catch up w/you?

At this point, its pretty clear (to me at least) that AA does not consider you a a "loyal customer" and thus warrants (in AAs opinion, if not yours) the closure of your account, confiscation of miles, etc..

As for advice, it may time to get a lawyer - but I don't think its going to pan out in your favor.

bhomburg

At this point, that appears not possible anymore.
If I were you, I'd seek competent legal advice and proceed from there. Check with A. Rosenbaum (of Ginsberg vs. Northwest currently with the US Supreme court) if you might have a case.

EagleTX

I would say maybe around 100k$ that did get credited back to my Citibank card - but miles didn't go deducted from my AA Frequent flyer. make sense?
I can see that they are been very serious.
But based on the Analyst AA J. C. research (she didn't give me any, nothing, no details at all - only saying the following) she just requested:

My name is J. C., and I am an analyst with American Airlines. One of my responsibilities is investigating possible instances of fraud, misrepresentation, and violations of the General AAdvantage® Program Conditions. Today, I’m writing you about your AAdvantage account # xxx.
We have reason to believe that mileage points reflected in your account summary violate the AAdvantage program conditions. As a result, American Airlines has suspended your AAdvantage membership privileges and use of AA.com® in conjunction with your account – and may terminate your account as a result of our findings. We are in the process of completing the investigation into this matter, and I would like to hear the events as they occurred from your perspective. Please respond to this message by March 6, 2014 with complete and accurate information regarding the activity listed below:
Please provide proof of purchase and payment for the points earned in your account from June 21, 2012 to present date associated with your Citi AAdvantage card purchases.
To protect and retain the integrity of the AAdvantage program, it is vital that firm action be taken as a result of any violation of the AAdvantage Program Conditions, whether intentional or not. Failure to respond completely and accurately by March 7, 2014 will result in the termination of your AAdvantage membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage miles in your account.
We hope to hear from you soon.

My reply:

It is my belief that Citibank should have informed AA of any returns and AA to then debit my AAdvantage account. I do not understand why they did not do that but in any case I have no issue with AA debiting my account for any returns as per AA policy. Unfortunately I do not keep my receipts or statements beyond a few months so I cannot tell you what I returned and what I did not. However I firmly believe the onus for such proof should lie between AA and Citibank, not the cardholder/AAdvantage member and I personally resent this treatment by AA.

Please debit my account for any returns that Citibank has identified and verified.


I understand they take this seriously and I have no problem for them deducting me miles they think I didn’t earn. Be to go and close account, forfeit all the miles and awards tickets…

It’s not extreme??

Upgraded!

Well, as you stated, it sounds like a slightly different problem than what we've been discussing, and perhaps the OP is being investigated on multiple fronts. The quoting of the particular T&C is rather telling and suggests that perhaps the "returned" purchases were AA tickets. Which would make sense if the OP wanted to generate miles quickly, since I think at least some Citi cards give double miles for AA purchases.

My latest theory is that the OP wanted to essentially "borrow" miles to make a booking, then realized that it would tie up half the money to buy AA tickets and refund them (since they come with double miles). Now, AA is looking at this as a case of fraudulent bookings, even though the OP wasn't necessarily trying to preserve upgrade or award space and just wanted the double miles from Citi. Or perhaps he was attempting to do both.

Upgraded!

Why not contact Citi and request email copies of the statements? They certainly must keep records that go back way longer than that. Even for closed accounts.

However if you purposefully closed the account between the time of return and when the miles would have been deducted, thinking that perhaps Citi would not get around to telling AA about the returns (but being willing to surrender the miles if they did) then I think you're in the wrong. However I would think it would be Citi who'd be more upset than AA (since Citi purchases those miles from AA for cash).

Oh, and if you have a US account with any meaningful balance, I'd spend that now; if you're barred from participating in AAdvantage then once the accounts merge, who knows what'll happen.

PainCorp

I still think more is going on here than OP is telling us...

EagleTX

10 years of clean travel: Platinum in AA and United, and Platinum in Marriott, IHG and HHonors and Gold in SPG. and never an incident until this major one!!
I appreciate all your feedbacks.

I don't know if hiring a lawyer (gonna cost $$) will help solve the issue to my favor?

Reading from some of the post, No - never sold my AA miles - just used for me and my close family.

This is real issue my friends.. I copied and paste email from AA Analyst J. C. to me and my reply.

I understand Citibank is a bigger customer then me... so no problem about bad mouthing them.

I'm just trying to see.. what I can use to my defense?

I'm ok for AA to take miles not earned.

I'm going to call AA relation center tomorrow... and wish for my luck.

Anyone have heard of any situation like that? and help they could give - for me to use when talking tomorrow to Customer relation?

I think that's my only chance...

Often1

OP - AA identified a concern, gave you a chance to respond and you blew them off. While you are correct that it may have been Citi's job to have informed AA in the first place, the ultimate responsibility for your account is on you. You should also consider that AA likely learned of your conduct from Citi. How else would AA know that you were returning items?

Once this mess is with AA's security people, customer service won't talk with you other than to refer you back.

If you want to have a prayer of keeping any of the 900K miles or obtaining status, send another response, apologizing for blowing of JC, and attaching whatever it is that you do have by way of receipts or other backup. It may be too late and it may not matter anyway, but right now you have made a bad situation worse and AA's more than likely to fire you, at least from its program.

aBroadAbroad

Miles earned on returned purchases are not deducted from the AAdvantage account. Instead, the Citi account reflects a negative mileage balance until sufficient additional spend is achieved to wipe out the mileage debt.

That said, it is clear that there were $90k in returns, and the Citi account was soon closed without first incurring subsequent spend sufficient to offset the mileage debt. Since the returned purchases involved tickets, he put himself on AA's radar.

OP knew he had retained thousands of unearned miles in his account, let them stay there with the knowledge that he could not offset those miles with real spend, gave the appearance of buying tickets that were not meant to be used, and gambled that AA would not notice and/or wouldn't care. He is now not acknowledging that AA is justified in its categorization of this activity as theft/fraud.

Did I miss anything?

EagleTX

yes 100K$ worth of AA ticket!!

International, multi stops, business class, fully refundable ticket - get very expensive. average 20K$ a pop.

Yes I got the miles via the credit card.. then I had some business changes.. and reschedule.. and canceled.

Like I said originally, I would expect Citibank to take the miles back.. it's not my duty to call AA.. and asking please deduct my mileage by so and so.. because of my return/canceled flight.

and I have way enough miles in my account to cover all these returns.

no problem with that.

Swear that's the story.