AA award flight cancelled due to schedule change

 
Old Mar 8, 14, 12:42 pm
  #196  
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Originally Posted by hillrider View Post
So the miles are NOT theirs. Interesting.
I would suggest that inferring legal or equitable Property rights based solely on accounting requirements is a risky strategy.

I think it salient and germane to observe that this discussion is more general to the nature of Frequent Flyer programs in the US and has no direct specificity to American Airlines or it's component parts.

Last edited by flyertalker54234; Mar 8, 14 at 12:47 pm Reason: Clarification for moderators
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Old Mar 8, 14, 12:47 pm
  #197  
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Originally Posted by rjlon View Post
I would suggest that inferring legal or equitable Property rights based solely on accounting requirements is a risky strategy.
Absolutely right.
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Old Mar 8, 14, 12:52 pm
  #198  
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Interestingly:

Once an airline chooses to switch to the Deferred Revenue Method, the accounting method itself likely drives management decisions about the FFP’s operation. Use of the Deferred Revenue Method primarily incentivizes management to make more award seats available relative to the Incremental Cost Method—a decision that would please passengers and could generate loyalty, although at the expense of potentially displacing fare-paying passengers. When award passengers travel using mileage credits, it has the effect of not only reducing the airline’s FFP liability, but also allowing the airline to recognize revenue approximately commensurate with the amount a fare-paying passenger would have paid....
Delta Airlines and United changed their accounting method right after emerging from Chapter 11 (during their fresh start accounting window), to the deferred revenue method. That immediately and vastly increased their balance sheet liabilities but also gave them much greater future revenue recognition opportunities when award credits are redeemed. Other airlines have expressed interest in changing, also, but have not done so because of a lack of precedent.

Last edited by Austinrunner; Mar 8, 14 at 1:21 pm
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Old Mar 8, 14, 1:07 pm
  #199  
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Google "ACCOUNTING FOR AIRLINE FREQUENT FLYER PROGRAMS: MANAGEMENT INCENTIVES AND FINANCIAL REPORTING IMPACTS" for more information about this subject.
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Old Mar 10, 14, 12:02 pm
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Several messages in this thread asked for details of the authority on which complainants might reasonably rely. It seems that one Darren Martin has proceeded to file a formal DOT complaint. It is publicly-docketed on Regulations.gov and available for review by the interested public. It is also available for public comment via the Regulations.gov comment function. For example, if you had a similar experience, you could submit an appropriate comment there.
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Old Mar 13, 14, 3:17 pm
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Regulations.gov today posted the formal complaint of Robert Samstein (by all indications, robbiesam, the original poster of this thread) as to his experience with AA on the matters discussed in this thread.

This document is available for review by the interested public, including for public comment via the Regulations.gov comment function.
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Old Mar 13, 14, 3:25 pm
  #202  
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Originally Posted by bedelman View Post
Regulations.gov today posted the formal complaint of Robert Samstein (by all indications, robbiesam, the original poster of this thread) as to his experience with AA on the matters discussed in this thread.

This document is available for review by the interested public, including for public comment via the Regulations.gov comment function.
What a strange (and stupid!) world we live in. That's my public comment.
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Old Mar 13, 14, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
What a strange (and stupid!) world we live in. That's my public comment.
Regulations.gov makes it easy for you to put that comment into the docket for DOT's review. You might consider doing so.

I suspect DOT would find your comment more persuasive if you offered the reasoning that supports your conclusion. Based on your knowledge and sophistication on all things AA, I know I'd be interested too.

I thought Mr. Samstein offered several persuasive authorities including AA's General Tariff, Schedule Change web page, and commitments pursuant to the JBA. Did you read the authorities on which Mr. Samstein relies? Do you think he misinterpreted those authorities? Misapplied them to his facts? Makes some other error? He does quote them and analyze them at length. I don't think his complaint can be easily dismissed. You can disagree with the end result he seeks (reacconmodation on a BA nonstop at no additional charge). But if the governing legal documents entitle him to that, who are we to say he shouldn't get it?

A few days ago I filed comments on Mr. Martin's complaint, connecting his experience to the allegations I had previously reported to DOT and to the experiences I've heard from others (including quite a few people who came to FT seeking help with these problems).
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Old Mar 13, 14, 3:57 pm
  #204  
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Originally Posted by bedelman View Post
...I suspect DOT would find your comment more persuasive if you offered the reasoning that supports your conclusion. Based on your knowledge and sophistication on all things AA....
That would require me to put some actual, mature thought and consideration into the matter. A matter I, personally, consider to be very, very, very trivial, easily solvable and wasteful of resources of all parties involved.

AAdvantage is a very generous FF program, with lots of weak spots and lots of strong points. No one is forced to accumulate AAdv miles nor are they usable in every conceivable way we'd like them to be-- far from it.

I haven't the slightest doubt that your take on things has legal validity and weight. As a non-lawyer and a user of AAdvantage miles, I, personally, find the whole thing patently idiotic and just a total waste of time.


I'd like to see DOT dealing with other matters.

YMMV!
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Old Mar 13, 14, 4:34 pm
  #205  
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
AAdvantage is a very generous FF program, with lots of weak spots and lots of strong points.
This statement is completely subjective. It may be the case for you and others in this specific board, but for someone who only redeems to see Grandma and flies from Dallas to Chicago, Southwest's program may be far more generous.
Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
No one is forced to accumulate AAdv miles
This is absolutely true, but AA cannot deceive the customers who chose to accumulate AAdv miles on the basis of the information AA gave him/her. I think this an area that the DOT has unfortunately been distracted from enforcing; ensuring that there's integrity in the offerings is a more than worthwhile pursuit.

I would be very happy for the DOT to work on this area. Remember when airlines were able to ask additional money at the check-in counter because they determined that the ticket you held was issued incorrectly (by them!) and you either paid more or didn't fly?

As you said, YMDV.
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Old Mar 13, 14, 6:39 pm
  #206  
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Originally Posted by bedelman View Post
Regulations.gov today posted the formal complaint of Robert Samstein (by all indications, robbiesam, the original poster of this thread) as to his experience with AA on the matters discussed in this thread..
How long did it take you to write it? You did this pro bono?
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Old Mar 13, 14, 6:42 pm
  #207  
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AA cannot promise benefits during one's retirement and change its mind later.
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