International Flight Cancellations
 

Well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but todays sked wire listed the following flights cancelled:

eff 09/29/01 SJC-TPE indefinately
eff 09/30/01 DFW-LGW (flt 58) 10/31/01
eff 09/30/01 ORD-BHX 03/31/02
eff 10/01/01 TPE-SJC indefinately
eff 10/01/01 ARN-ORD indefinately
eff 10/01/01 LGW-DFW (flt 79) 11/01/01
eff 10/01/01 BHX-ORD 04/01/01
eff 11/01/01 DFW-LGW (flt 78) 03/31/02
eff 11/02/01 LGW-DFW (flt 51) 04/01/01

Domestic list is supposed to come out tomorrow. These are on top of the previously announced cancellations.

Looks like alot more layoffs in SJC than we anticipated. We'll know more numbers some time next week. Thanks for all your support.

Suzy

[This message has been edited by SJCSuzy (edited 09-21-2001).]

So much for the TPE mileage run!

And I truly feel sorry for all of the American employees who have now lost their job due to the stupid actions of the 19 angry terrorists. This is a classy airline.

ff

Thank you for posting this news... I was booked on AA78 in December, C class using VIPOWs. I called tonight and was able to move to AA50 and fortunately C inventory was still available. If I had not acted so fast I may have lost the business class seats.

One problem however... we're travelling with infant and had booked bulkhead, center section, so we had bassenet fittings. Well someone else has this already on AA50. Is there a "special services" group in AA that I can call and make a request... like have them contact the passengers currently seated in bulkhead to see if they would be willing to move? I know that if I received such a call I would happily move to accomodate a family (unless I was already in need of the bassenet of course). Right now we have bulkhead on one side, but that means that one of us has to sit elsewhere... and row immediately behind/accross aisle is also occupied. So, does AA have anyone I can contact to see if some seat shuffling can be done?

Thanks
David

I wonder what happens to my upcoming trip next week. I'm OK SJC-TPE because it is before 9/29 but the return is after the TPE-SJC route is cancelled. I will call the Plat desk tomorrow and let everybody know how they're going to reaccommodate me. I have another similar trip for November which is now up in the air.

Are you sure about 79? I just called the Plt desk and was told it is not cancelled yet. We are booked on Oct 4th and was told we cannot be rebooked until it shows cancelled in AA's computer. I do not want to loose the milage upgrade.

Bob

It looks like that ORD-MXP is gone too -- availability has been zeroed out from 31OCT onwards. Gulp.

What is wrong with ARN-ORD? Most times I've flown that route they have been pretty full, and not that long ago my wife inquired about upgrading and was told that ARN-ORD is often full in business class, so upgrading may be difficult. Also, quite recently talking to reservations they told me a nonstop ARN-DFW was being considered in addition to ARN-ORD. Now they're axing ARN altogether. Any insights?

What is going on with ARN?

Delta got rid of their JFK-ARN too!

I think you only have to look at loads on international flights to between non-major hubs in the first week or "back to business" flying to realize why AA -- and other carriers -- are trimming such routes. My SJC-TPE-SJC flights on Tuesday and Thursday were virtually empty: a couple of passengers in F, 19 going and 9 returning in J, and probably 50 or 60 in the back on both flights. The fall off is too great to maintain these and similar routes. [Associated costs with international services are very high, including crew costs at destinations, ground services support, etc.] These cities can be served by concentrating on service through major hubs, then carrying on using alliance partner carriers. And most passengers originating from those cities are now choosing their own national carriers rather than US ones, another off shoot of targeting US carriers.

Yes, but is the "first week of back to business" really representative of what things will be like in the longer run?

Yes, they can be served by connecting service, but I have a feeling many of the high-revenue passengers are more concerned with routing and scheduling convenience than with price and ff miles, so question is: will you be able to compete successfully for the most profitable passengers with that strategy? Unless you dump prices significantly or hand out tons of bonus miles, neither of which is likely to help your business.

My guess is that AA began to feel ambivalent about ARN when UA and SK got friendly.

MADBOB.... Yes,looks like 79 is gone. While it still shows up in the CRS, availability is zero'd out on all classes. This is first step towards cancellation (prevents new bookings).

The response you got from Plt desk is similar to the response I got on Flt 78 when I called. I pressed the agent and he called for help, when he came back on the line he acknowledged that it looked like the flight was being cancelled and we worked on rebooking.

Another comment on this:

For codeshares to be an attractive alternative to flights on AA metal, identical elite benefits must be offered. I'm talking about lounge access, upgrades using miles (or VIPOW's), priority boarding, preferred seating, status miles and elite bonuses, flight paging, etc. All that needs to be the same for codeshares as when flying AA metal. Some, but not all, are already in place for codeshares on oneworld partners. A few also for codeshares outside oneworld.

Are there any plans to implement this consistently for all codeshares, inside and outside of oneworld?

MRTC/B would be nice too, but is not realistic. All others are, I would think, since they mostly depend on someone making administrative decisions rather than reconfiguration of the aircraft.

On the 9-21 SJC-TPE flight, one of the flight attendants told a bunch of us FT'ers that the route was being cancelled, and that she got the word on that day. A very sad time, especially since part of the crew for that route will be laid off.

Personally, it's also a problem since I have another trip booked for Oct. 19th. I guess AA will end up routing me through NRT.

Thanks Hillrider - I just checked online and the MXP-ORD flight I was scheduled on in November is gone. Although AA has not yet contacted me, I appreciate the members of this board who help each other out!

Question .... If business is so bad where are the air fare sales ???? Isn't someone paying some thing better than the doors closing on a plane with mucho empty seats???

My travel routes ORD-HNL and ORD -LHR have the same price today as before 9-11.
Is this the case of wealthy airline managers putting out a worst case to get the 5$ bil package ?

SJCSuzy....thanks for the info.

Do you drive a RAV 4?

I have flown ORD-ARN several times when in J. Part of the reason that loads in J are so good is that a westbound discounted J is often the same price as an eastbound full Y. When I flew it last September, it was $1350 westbound for J (D class inventory).

Now, the best way to get to Scandinavia on AA is probably to fly to MAN (avoiding the chaos of LHR) and transfer to BA.

What's left transatlantic other than LON/CDG? ORD-MAN (still feeding BA), MIA-MAD (how much longer for that one?), ORD-BRU, and ORD-FRA. Anything else?

hedoman-you're welcome and I drive a Subaru.

Suzy

I was booked on the SJC-TPE flights in late November, and have found that there aren't a lot of good alternatives for re-booking. In fact, there aren't any good alternatives, especially if I want to stay in C (upgrade award)

There is an EVA codeshare flight to Taipei, which would require a re-route through either SFO or LAX, and would mean no upgrade. No thanks.

The other option is to fly SJC-NRT, assuming that it's still operating by then, and then take one of AA's partners onwards to TPE. Problem is that all of the NRT flights, from SJC, SEA, DFW and ORD get into NRT around 4PM, and the last "partner" flight, on Japan Asia to TPE, leaves at 415. According to the Plat Desk, new regulations require one to go through customs at each country, so no more "sterile transit" areas, and a 2 hour connecting time. I found this strange- I know about the customs at first point of entry in the US, but never have heard of it for international flights. The next Japan Asia flight to TPE isn't until the following morning, and AA isn't willing to pay for the hotel...there is a NW flight leaving around 6pm, but they won't book it since there's no ticketing agreement w/ AA. EVA, which is another AA partner, flies out of Haneda, not Narita, and Cathay goes through Hong Kong...

Since I only had a few days planned in TPE anyways, losing another day isn't really a palatable option either. I'm not sure what to do. Maybe I'll just cancel the whole thing and book a Singapore award ticket through SFO to TPE using UA miles instead.

Anyone else have experience trying to re-book for the cancelled TPE flight yet? Guess this is one area where AA's weak Asian route structure really hurts us.

Try calling back. AA does have ticketing agreement with NW, assuming taking NW is an acceptable option.

ElmhurstNick, MIA-MAD is one of AA's single most profitable and important routes. Not only does it feed AA's Central American flights (as well as Iberia flights. Iberia has a hub in Miami and codeshares with AA for a total of three daily flights, soon to be four), but the ties between Miami and Madrid are huge. That's why the flight was moved to Miami from Dallas. Iberia is rumoured to be planning on leasing two A380s from IFLC to use on MIA-MAD. In fact, with all the extra 777s AA is going to have, look for MIA-MAD, as well as MIA-CDG, to go 777 within six months.

I spent (no kidding) an hour and forty-one minutes on the phone yesterday with the Platinum Desk trying to rebook mine with zero luck. It wasn't their fault, either - I had one of RDU's finest gals working on it with me.

I faced the exact same dilemnas - no way to same day connect in TPE, no ability to creatively reroute given 1. the fare rules for the original reservation, 2. my desire to upgrade, and 3. my need to only take one day off from work.

I'm going to continue to work on it and see what I can accomplish, but also fear I will end up just getting a refund issued.

Meanwhile, I'll keep checking Flyer Talk and hoping someone else finds a creative solution I can use as a precedent.

... and to make matters worse, the cancelled routes are still loaded in the system so when I try to work this out on Travelocity, they keep pulling up!

To add to my frustrations on the TPE cancellation, the onward segment from NRT would be in Y. As it would not be a flight on AA metal, apparently my award upgrade does not hold. While much shorter than the Transpacific portion, NRT-TPE isn't exactly a short flight either, and the thought of 3-4 hours in Y after a 10+ hour flight to NRT just isn't all that appealing.

I only have a connecting problem on the outbound. I'd even take Eva, if they would rebook me in business, out of SFO.

It's interesting that DFW would lose ALL flights to London. You'd think we would have more than enough passengers & cargo to support at least one.

I had a very cooperative CSR tonight trying to figure out a way home for me from TPE on 9 October. Only reasonable alternative was an EVA codeshare that I could not upgrade.

As I was actually flying back to TPE from SIN to take AA150, I ended up going SIN to KIX to take AA158 to DFW and then home to PBI. After much discussion and persuasive work by the CSR, the powers that be waived the normal 100 mile limit on the alternate airport proximity and allowed the same fare that I had to be valid from KIX. As this is an AA metal flight I also could upgrade to BC.

I have to give a lot of credit to this CSR as he really went to bat for me to redo my entire itinerary and keep all the upgrades. I originally had MIA-SEA-JFK-TPE-SJC-DFW-PBI and now am going FLL-DFW-SJC-TPE//KIX-DFW-PBI.

I think I'll have to take the Eva codeshare for my Oct. flight, because there doesn't seem to be any way to go from TPE back to BOS other than on Eva.

Will AA allow a route like BOX-NRT-TPE-LAX-BOS? Because for the outbound leg, I could do BOS-NRT on AA and NRT-TPE on CX. That way I can at least upgrade the outbound leg, and do Eva for the return leg.

It might make sense if they were pulling out of LGW alltogether as there could be significant savings from cutting a local operation 35 miles from their enormous LHR op. However, I think it will be a while before we can all make sense of these changes

We all know that we can't upgrade on AA code shares (this is a big draw back with AA), but for those of you who have not flown on AA code shares with Eva. Beware. You may be tempted to buy a Business class ticket which you may or may not get at a good price. DO NOT do IT- at 44" of pitch in Biz, I'll never go that way.

Best thing to do is either take MH or SQ to TPE or pony up a little more and take EVA's Evergreen Deluxe (Their deluze coach class)However I am not sure that you can buy this a AA ticket Or another option is to buy a Y or Y2 fare from CX, use your AA miles to upgrade

DFW is not losing all flights to LGW... It's going from two flights daily to one flight. Currently there is AA50/51 and AA78/79. One is being cancelled -- but which one varies by date.

yes it is true. AA51 is cancelled on Nov 22. I asked to be re-routed to TPA via ORD as that is the only valid connection now. Done without a murmur.

This is exactly what I have been told today.

I had reservations in November for LGW-DFW FL 79. This flight does still exist on the day I travel. However, on my return trip, DFW-LGW, I suspected that FL 78 had been cancelled on the date I fly in November. I have been able to rebook onto FL 50 but not without difficulty.

I had tried to find out which flight was going to be dropped on what day but staff at AA genuinely did not seem to know. On Saturday and Sunday I noticed that certain flights on this route were missing from the web site. I called AA again (Sunday) and was told that my flights were still valid so no rebooking. Over the weekend and again today, I printed the seat maps for DFW-LGW FL78 and FL50 and found that vacant seats were appearing on 78 and filling up on 50. I called again and told them what I had noticed and have now been rebooked to FL50.

I was told that it is not up to the airline to let passengers know when a flight has been cancelled. The agent said it was the passengers responsibility. I have no idea if that is correct or not. If I had not seen the post from SJCSuzy on the 21st I probably would not have called.

Thanks, SJCSuzy, I am indebted to you.

Well, thanks to a very helpful Platinum desk, I'm re-scheduled now for my TPE trip in mid-October.

They were able to put me on BOS-SEA-NRT on AA metal and NRT-TPE on CX. Return via BOS-LAX on Eva codeshare and LAX-BOS on the redeye. 7 hours in LAX, which might be just right for me to get out of the airport for a while.

Overall, I'm pretty happy at how quickly and smoothly AA was able to protect me on different flights. I'm going to miss SJC-TPE, though.

Seasonal service ORD-GLA always VERY full!!

No more word from Suzy about domestic cancellations??

Just confirmed my Oct 4th TPE run.

No problems.

DFW-LGA-KIX-TPE-KIX-LGA-DFW.

Confirmed on AA Metal except KIX-TPE-KIX

Outstanding job to AA Reservations!

Interesting! I wasn't offered the KIX option on the TPE-BOS return leg. Is KIX-TPE-KIX an AA codeshare or is it just a straight Eva flight?

I might want to call AA back and have them change it. I really don't want to fly a 747 for the transpacific route. No power port.

Are you able to fly "same day" from KIX-TPE? From what I have found, there aren't any connecting flights from KIX-TPE after the AA flight from DFW gets in.

Sadly, I think I'm resigning myself to UA out of SFO. Obviously would rather take SQ, but no award seats left on them.

I'm also waiting for domestic cancellation information, also known as waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop on the symbolic floor.

My secret-sleep-sofa-in-the-sky is gonna be among the cuts that I'm expecting and dreading. That would be AA#290, the redeye 757 from SJC to JFK that was already almost always empty enough to allow every passenger three seats to stretch across and snooze. Add in an Eagle flight from JFK to Washington and a connecting flight from someplace else on the west coast like San Diego or Seattle and it was one of the best ways I'd found to earn some extra miles at no extra cost while travelling far more comfortably than on the usually-full 767 redeyes from LA or by changing at 5:00am in Chicago or DFW.