AA Oversells AA76, Strands 27 8th Graders at LAX

 
Old Apr 3, 13, 5:40 pm
  #151  
brp
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, AS 75K Gold MVP, and some hotel stuff...
Posts: 32,556
Originally Posted by SilentMonarch View Post
Yup. It's called "charitable donations" on my tax form.

And it's about someone that has earned a perk exercising compassion for someone less fortunate than them and not exercising the perk.
Excellent point. I do quite a lot of that myself. Probably a bad counterexample on my part. I should have been more explicit as simply remitting more taxes so that others who make less might not have to

Cheers.

Last edited by brp; Apr 3, 13 at 5:48 pm
brp is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 6:11 pm
  #152  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,902
Originally Posted by Dallas49er View Post

(And no I won't say how much!)
Why? Am is missing why one withold this interesting detail from the story??
Ritz is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 6:31 pm
  #153  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: 120% Airline Free Agent, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Avis likes me
Posts: 2,984
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post
Why? Am is missing why one withold this interesting detail from the story??
Yes.
Dallas49er is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 6:34 pm
  #154  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU + KSFO
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador | Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,716
Originally Posted by mczlaw View Post
{snort}

Coming soon to an airport gate near you:

AA: Sorry Mr. [burp], but we are IDB'ing you for this group of 29 nuns and orphans heading to visit the Pope.

brp: That's laughable on its face. DYKWIA? I'm an EXP. This is outrageous. I have Tom Horton on speed dial. Who cares about a bunch of nuns and orphans anyway? They're unclean and don't know a bulkhead seat from an emergency exit row.

AA: Need to keep the group together. Orders from on high. Big headache otherwise. Couldn't get enough VDBs. Here's your check. Sorry.

brp: ...I'll sue. The rules are clear. There's no wiggle room.

AA: Sorry sir. They're our rules and they give us leeway to deal with exceptional situations like this. Sue all you want but you're not flying on this aircraft...now you want your check or not? Or do I have to call security?

brp: Well, I never...[sputter, sputter, blah blah blah]

Only a matter of time. Cheers

--mcz
Best not let religion get involved in IDB priorities. Value judgements start to fly...
Antarius is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 6:47 pm
  #155  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: 120% Airline Free Agent, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Avis likes me
Posts: 2,984
Value judgements. On FT?

Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Best not let religion get involved in IDB priorities. Value judgements start to fly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME
Dallas49er is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 6:51 pm
  #156  
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 10,081
Time to stick a fork in this thread?
dayone is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 7:30 pm
  #157  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Programs: AA ExPlat, AS MVP Gold
Posts: 872
Originally Posted by dayone View Post
Time to stick a fork in this thread?
I'm out. Pleasure passing the time hereabouts.

5 AA segments coming up mid-month. Glad spring break will have run its course. I hope winter weather as well.

--mcz
mczlaw is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 7:32 pm
  #158  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texas
Programs: Hyatt Explorist ex-Diamond; Marriott Platinum Life; Hilton, AA, United ex-status
Posts: 2,050
Originally Posted by dayone View Post
Time to stick a fork in this thread?
Oh I don't know. Somehow we can infer the TSA kept them from getting the group to the gate in time and we can do another 10 pages.
jayer is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 8:03 pm
  #159  
brp
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, AS 75K Gold MVP, and some hotel stuff...
Posts: 32,556
Originally Posted by mczlaw View Post
I'm out. Pleasure passing the time hereabouts.

5 AA segments coming up mid-month. Glad spring break will have run its course. I hope winter weather as well.

--mcz
It was fun. Safe travels and hopes for delay-free weather

Cheers.
brp is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 8:49 pm
  #160  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 88,240
The report early in this thread that at one point the GA told them they'd have to buy six tickets on other flights, or tickets for everyone on other flights if the group insisted on staying together, doesn't sound like the IDB conditions were met. Perhaps check in wasn't completed by the deadline or the group arrived late at the gate, but the GA was willing to allow as many as possible, given the number of available seats, to fly anyway.

Given the PR mess, AA might nevertheless be giving compensation even though the group failed to satisfy the required conditions to be entitled to compensation.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 9:58 pm
  #161  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA and UK
Programs: British Airways Executive Club Silver, Alitalia Freccia Alata
Posts: 1,351
Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Seat assignments are irrelevant, as the possession or absence of a seat asssignment has nothing to do with AA's IDB priority, as I posted yesterday.

Why do posters keep talking about seat assignments?

There may be other airlines where seat assignments are relevant, but not at AA.
As a GA, I can confirm that it does. Persons without assigned seats are given gate passes with their flight that put them on the PALL list as OSs (oversales). Most of the time these are cleared. However, in cases where the flight will have IDBs, they are processed by last-to-check-in OS is denied first order.

So, passengers who have confirmed seats (in their PNR) will not be put on the OS list, therefore have a very unlikely chance of being IDB as these come from the OS list.

The computer will give out seats to anyone who checks in until there are no more to give (even if pax with seat assignments have not checked in) and list them as an OS in the PALL list.

If agents follow the rules, people with assigned seats should never be IDB. That is the point of listing pax as OSs.

So I can tell from this, that the passengers did not have assigned seats in their PNR (something the group desk should have done if possible) and were some of the last people to check in for the flight.

PS: OS lists can be categorized by Oneworld status as well. So if an EP is an OS, even if he is the last pax to check in, he will get a seat before other OSs.
BA0197 is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 9:59 pm
  #162  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA and UK
Programs: British Airways Executive Club Silver, Alitalia Freccia Alata
Posts: 1,351
Originally Posted by mczlaw View Post
I'm out. Pleasure passing the time hereabouts.

5 AA segments coming up mid-month. Glad spring break will have run its course. I hope winter weather as well.

--mcz
But now we start the fun time of DFW diversions!!!
BA0197 is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 11:07 pm
  #163  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA EXP (2MM), UA Premier, Hertz President's Circle, Marriott
Posts: 156
OK - All good - how did the story END? Do we know?
DaveInSFV is offline  
Old Apr 3, 13, 11:08 pm
  #164  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: AA EXP, DL FO
Posts: 1,703
Originally Posted by sts603 View Post
Here's what I'm guessing happened:

(1) Group didn't have seat assignments
(2) Flight was overbooked
(3) No one volunteered to take a VDB
(4) IDB rules hit the non-status passengers with no seat assignments first
(5) The school group refused to split up. I can't imagine that there wasn't a second adult who could have accompanied the second group of students.
(5) AA decided to hold down the letter of the rule and treat the decision not to split as a voluntary no show and canceled the tickets.
(6) The school leader went ape and all attempts at a reasonable solution (e.g., getting to DC before Wednesday which would be super easy - there is definitely space via connecting cities, etc.) thus became unsuccessful.

Honestly, if it went down as above - and assuming there was a second adult - I'll side with AA.
Agreed. This news piece is seeking an emotion response because children are involved. Why is a child's disrupted trip any more tragic than an adult's disrupted trip? The suggestions here seem to posit that it's OK to IDB an adult instead of a child.

To those suggesting that AA should have gone against normal IDB procedures -- what kind of DOT fines would that have potentially opened them up to?

I propose that a group of 27 children traveling with no more than two adults is quite irresponsible on the school's part.
vxmike is offline  
Old Apr 4, 13, 12:34 am
  #165  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: OC, CA
Programs: AA EXP, 2MM, AS MVP, HH Diamond
Posts: 604
Originally Posted by vxmike View Post
Agreed. This news piece is seeking an emotion response because children are involved. Why is a child's disrupted trip any more tragic than an adult's disrupted trip? The suggestions here seem to posit that it's OK to IDB an adult instead of a child.

To those suggesting that AA should have gone against normal IDB procedures -- what kind of DOT fines would that have potentially opened them up to?

I propose that a group of 27 children traveling with no more than two adults is quite irresponsible on the school's part.
The issue isn't just the trip disruption - it's the splitting up of the group that makes it a bigger deal. And yes, more adult chaperones can make the situation easier and deal better with contingencies but you still have the added burden of getting the group back together again, the possibility of further disruptions for one group and not the other, communication issues between the two groups, plus as numerous people have already pointed out it is sometimes about having school staff available, not just adults (liability/insurance etc). Ultimately, breaking up a group introduces uncertainty into the situation and i think most people would be more worried about that uncertainty being introduced into their child's itinerary than their spouse or work colleague's itinerary. So yes, IMO it is FAR more OK to IDB an adult than to break up a group of children.

I think AA has more than enough flexibility to avoid DOT fines. And if not, then they need to fix their procedures to manage groups more consistently. Period.
hbtr is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: