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-   -   AA Oversells AA76, Strands 27 8th Graders at LAX (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage-pre-consolidation-usair/1454553-aa-oversells-aa76-strands-27-8th-graders-lax.html)

brp Apr 3, 13 5:40 pm


Originally Posted by SilentMonarch (Post 20531906)
Yup. It's called "charitable donations" on my tax form.

And it's about someone that has earned a perk exercising compassion for someone less fortunate than them and not exercising the perk.

Excellent point. I do quite a lot of that myself. Probably a bad counterexample on my part. I should have been more explicit as simply remitting more taxes so that others who make less might not have to :)

Cheers.

Ritz Apr 3, 13 6:11 pm


Originally Posted by Dallas49er (Post 20529147)

(And no I won't say how much!) :D

Why? Am is missing why one withold this interesting detail from the story??

Dallas49er Apr 3, 13 6:31 pm


Originally Posted by Ritz (Post 20532213)
Why? Am is missing why one withold this interesting detail from the story??

Yes.

Antarius Apr 3, 13 6:34 pm


Originally Posted by mczlaw (Post 20532025)
{snort} :p

Coming soon to an airport gate near you:

AA: Sorry Mr. [burp], but we are IDB'ing you for this group of 29 nuns and orphans heading to visit the Pope.

brp: That's laughable on its face. DYKWIA? I'm an EXP. This is outrageous. I have Tom Horton on speed dial. Who cares about a bunch of nuns and orphans anyway? They're unclean and don't know a bulkhead seat from an emergency exit row.

AA: Need to keep the group together. Orders from on high. Big headache otherwise. Couldn't get enough VDBs. Here's your check. Sorry.

brp: ...I'll sue. The rules are clear. There's no wiggle room.

AA: Sorry sir. They're our rules and they give us leeway to deal with exceptional situations like this. Sue all you want but you're not flying on this aircraft...now you want your check or not? Or do I have to call security?

brp: Well, I never...[sputter, sputter, blah blah blah]

Only a matter of time. Cheers;)

--mcz

Best not let religion get involved in IDB priorities. Value judgements start to fly...

Dallas49er Apr 3, 13 6:47 pm

Value judgements. On FT?
 

Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 20532324)
Best not let religion get involved in IDB priorities. Value judgements start to fly...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

dayone Apr 3, 13 6:51 pm

Time to stick a fork in this thread?

mczlaw Apr 3, 13 7:30 pm


Originally Posted by dayone (Post 20532399)
Time to stick a fork in this thread?

I'm out. Pleasure passing the time hereabouts.

5 AA segments coming up mid-month. Glad spring break will have run its course. :) I hope winter weather as well.

--mcz

jayer Apr 3, 13 7:32 pm


Originally Posted by dayone (Post 20532399)
Time to stick a fork in this thread?

Oh I don't know. Somehow we can infer the TSA kept them from getting the group to the gate in time and we can do another 10 pages.

brp Apr 3, 13 8:03 pm


Originally Posted by mczlaw (Post 20532609)
I'm out. Pleasure passing the time hereabouts.

5 AA segments coming up mid-month. Glad spring break will have run its course. :) I hope winter weather as well.

--mcz

It was fun. Safe travels and hopes for delay-free weather :)

Cheers.

MSPeconomist Apr 3, 13 8:49 pm

The report early in this thread that at one point the GA told them they'd have to buy six tickets on other flights, or tickets for everyone on other flights if the group insisted on staying together, doesn't sound like the IDB conditions were met. Perhaps check in wasn't completed by the deadline or the group arrived late at the gate, but the GA was willing to allow as many as possible, given the number of available seats, to fly anyway.

Given the PR mess, AA might nevertheless be giving compensation even though the group failed to satisfy the required conditions to be entitled to compensation.

BA0197 Apr 3, 13 9:58 pm


Originally Posted by FWAAA (Post 20528968)
Seat assignments are irrelevant, as the possession or absence of a seat asssignment has nothing to do with AA's IDB priority, as I posted yesterday.

Why do posters keep talking about seat assignments?

There may be other airlines where seat assignments are relevant, but not at AA.

As a GA, I can confirm that it does. Persons without assigned seats are given gate passes with their flight that put them on the PALL list as OSs (oversales). Most of the time these are cleared. However, in cases where the flight will have IDBs, they are processed by last-to-check-in OS is denied first order.

So, passengers who have confirmed seats (in their PNR) will not be put on the OS list, therefore have a very unlikely chance of being IDB as these come from the OS list.

The computer will give out seats to anyone who checks in until there are no more to give (even if pax with seat assignments have not checked in) and list them as an OS in the PALL list.

If agents follow the rules, people with assigned seats should never be IDB. That is the point of listing pax as OSs.

So I can tell from this, that the passengers did not have assigned seats in their PNR (something the group desk should have done if possible) and were some of the last people to check in for the flight.

PS: OS lists can be categorized by Oneworld status as well. So if an EP is an OS, even if he is the last pax to check in, he will get a seat before other OSs.

BA0197 Apr 3, 13 9:59 pm


Originally Posted by mczlaw (Post 20532609)
I'm out. Pleasure passing the time hereabouts.

5 AA segments coming up mid-month. Glad spring break will have run its course. :) I hope winter weather as well.

--mcz

But now we start the fun time of DFW diversions!!! :rolleyes:

DaveInSFV Apr 3, 13 11:07 pm

OK - All good - how did the story END? Do we know?

vxmike Apr 3, 13 11:08 pm


Originally Posted by sts603 (Post 20520430)
Here's what I'm guessing happened:

(1) Group didn't have seat assignments
(2) Flight was overbooked
(3) No one volunteered to take a VDB
(4) IDB rules hit the non-status passengers with no seat assignments first
(5) The school group refused to split up. I can't imagine that there wasn't a second adult who could have accompanied the second group of students.
(5) AA decided to hold down the letter of the rule and treat the decision not to split as a voluntary no show and canceled the tickets.
(6) The school leader went ape and all attempts at a reasonable solution (e.g., getting to DC before Wednesday which would be super easy - there is definitely space via connecting cities, etc.) thus became unsuccessful.

Honestly, if it went down as above - and assuming there was a second adult - I'll side with AA.

Agreed. This news piece is seeking an emotion response because children are involved. Why is a child's disrupted trip any more tragic than an adult's disrupted trip? The suggestions here seem to posit that it's OK to IDB an adult instead of a child.

To those suggesting that AA should have gone against normal IDB procedures -- what kind of DOT fines would that have potentially opened them up to?

I propose that a group of 27 children traveling with no more than two adults is quite irresponsible on the school's part.

hbtr Apr 4, 13 12:34 am


Originally Posted by vxmike (Post 20533465)
Agreed. This news piece is seeking an emotion response because children are involved. Why is a child's disrupted trip any more tragic than an adult's disrupted trip? The suggestions here seem to posit that it's OK to IDB an adult instead of a child.

To those suggesting that AA should have gone against normal IDB procedures -- what kind of DOT fines would that have potentially opened them up to?

I propose that a group of 27 children traveling with no more than two adults is quite irresponsible on the school's part.

The issue isn't just the trip disruption - it's the splitting up of the group that makes it a bigger deal. And yes, more adult chaperones can make the situation easier and deal better with contingencies but you still have the added burden of getting the group back together again, the possibility of further disruptions for one group and not the other, communication issues between the two groups, plus as numerous people have already pointed out it is sometimes about having school staff available, not just adults (liability/insurance etc). Ultimately, breaking up a group introduces uncertainty into the situation and i think most people would be more worried about that uncertainty being introduced into their child's itinerary than their spouse or work colleague's itinerary. So yes, IMO it is FAR more OK to IDB an adult than to break up a group of children.

I think AA has more than enough flexibility to avoid DOT fines. And if not, then they need to fix their procedures to manage groups more consistently. Period.


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