View Poll Results: My opinion of the announced AA - US merger is:
This is the best of all possible worlds; great idea!
33
3.93%
This portends a stronger airline, with some changes for all
192
22.88%
I am neutral - pros and cons for all
199
23.72%
I think this is a somewhat bad idea with some real challenges
226
26.94%
I am completely opposed to this merger; terrible idea!
189
22.53%
Voters: 839. You may not vote on this poll
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated)
Feb 13, 2013, 8:08 pm
#166
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: UGS, AA CK
Posts: 212
1. If you all are leaving, dont let the door hit you in the crack on the way out. More upgrades
2. As a CP flying 150+ segments per year (75% Eastern time, 15% central, 10% pacific), I have had 4 flights I upgraded using miles, other than that, I have a 100% upgrade success for 27 months now. No stickers, nothing. Though our jalopies may be not the prettiest, the seats are big, and comfy and the beer is as cold in plastic, as it is in the occasional glass. That is what I am most worried about.
3. For frequent fliers, presumably for business, many of you must have failed business 101. You cant give the house away for cheap fares, coupled with union wages for long.
4. Step away from the keyboard for a week and lets see what happens. I moderate some other message forums and I would have locked this whine fest after post #2
2. As a CP flying 150+ segments per year (75% Eastern time, 15% central, 10% pacific), I have had 4 flights I upgraded using miles, other than that, I have a 100% upgrade success for 27 months now. No stickers, nothing. Though our jalopies may be not the prettiest, the seats are big, and comfy and the beer is as cold in plastic, as it is in the occasional glass. That is what I am most worried about.
3. For frequent fliers, presumably for business, many of you must have failed business 101. You cant give the house away for cheap fares, coupled with union wages for long.
4. Step away from the keyboard for a week and lets see what happens. I moderate some other message forums and I would have locked this whine fest after post #2
Feb 13, 2013, 8:09 pm
#167
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,594
At first I was opposed to this merger as I see the AA product being degraded. But then I realized that CLT will now become an AA hub and since I'll be achieving status on AA this year, I'll have another option besides DL through ATL or DTW from where I live when I fly home to NC, as US and DL are the only options (I refuse to fly UA). AA wasnt an option AA doesn't fly ORD-GSO and I'm not going down to DFW to get to NC.
Anyway, best wishes for the AA and US employees in all of this. Hope all/most come out okay and get to keep their jobs.
Anyway, best wishes for the AA and US employees in all of this. Hope all/most come out okay and get to keep their jobs.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:17 pm
#168
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
Programs: AA EXP/LT PLT, DL PM, UA Silver, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,510
The interesting thing for me here is how they'll manage upgrades. On AA, you can usually buy F right up until departure (i.e., they don't fill it with upgraders at the windows). US isn't like that - if you need to make a change within the upgrade windows, you can kiss your seat in the front of the bus goodbye.
That's a major difference for me since I tend to book close in and often have to make changes.
In theory, if they integrate FFPs realtively quickly, this benefits me as I wound up just missing CP by 6 segments and 5k miles, landing at 114/95k. On AA, I only did about 40/40k. Combined, it's fat city. Heck, if they just stick with AA's segment requirements I'm golden.
... also makes the 1k comp and subsequent 25k of January flying look even dumber on my part than it already did.
That's a major difference for me since I tend to book close in and often have to make changes.
In theory, if they integrate FFPs realtively quickly, this benefits me as I wound up just missing CP by 6 segments and 5k miles, landing at 114/95k. On AA, I only did about 40/40k. Combined, it's fat city. Heck, if they just stick with AA's segment requirements I'm golden.
... also makes the 1k comp and subsequent 25k of January flying look even dumber on my part than it already did.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:17 pm
#169
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
22.6M who can afford to fly > 1.03B when most of those 1.03B have no possibility of paying a fare that would ever generate a profit. Talk to or at least listen to AA route planning people and you'll find that the data they have gives them little inclination to expend any effort growing into Africa.
It may seem foolish to care so little about an entire continent with 1B+ people, but the economies there simply don't justify significant flying. AA's focus for expansion is the routes that will generate the highest profit. That is primarily additional South America routes, with flights into mainland China maybe slightly higher on the priority list, if they can get slots in PEK/PVG.
It may seem foolish to care so little about an entire continent with 1B+ people, but the economies there simply don't justify significant flying. AA's focus for expansion is the routes that will generate the highest profit. That is primarily additional South America routes, with flights into mainland China maybe slightly higher on the priority list, if they can get slots in PEK/PVG.
AA def makes most of the money it does in South America these days. That's why MIA is the most profitable hub. China so far, they and most carriers are not making that much money. Great potential, but yet proven that profitable. Very expensive to operate, limited slots, tight control by the Chinese government etc has made it difficult to make money. It's more a future investment rather then making much if any money.
Last edited by grahampros; Feb 13, 2013 at 8:40 pm
Feb 13, 2013, 8:23 pm
#170
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: AA, DL
Posts: 82
One hope of mine is that when the combined frequent flier program is sorted out, it will retain the one-way awards that AA currently has.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:23 pm
#171
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
No that's not his aim at all. He wouldn't not be agreeing the higher costs that will now get imposed on his own current operation if that were the case. Just more of Parker bashing by someone who knows little about how the industry works.
Last edited by grahampros; Feb 13, 2013 at 8:38 pm
Feb 13, 2013, 8:23 pm
#172
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS MVP Gold75k; HHonors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 3,502
Trying to be optimistic, I can see a scenario where Parker takes the high road, which will mean unloading current US flights that become unprofitable under the new labor deal. Rather than furlough the affected pilots and FAs, they can fill the expected AA openings.
What do you assume that Parker is going to abandon the successful parts of the cornerstone strategy - adding service to South America, Asia. What is he going to do with the 777's coming on line over the next few years?
Horton had told the pilots that he planned to hire 2,500 over five years to support his plan of 20% growth at the key business markets - the cornerstones.
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...five-years.ece
With this merger, that alternative growth plan is probably not going to happen. Accordingly, the work rule improvements that AA gained in bankruptcy will probably mean a surplus of pilots, not a shortage that would require the hiring of 2,500 over five years. No way will AA be hiring a "few thousand" new pilots over the next five years.
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...five-years.ece
With this merger, that alternative growth plan is probably not going to happen. Accordingly, the work rule improvements that AA gained in bankruptcy will probably mean a surplus of pilots, not a shortage that would require the hiring of 2,500 over five years. No way will AA be hiring a "few thousand" new pilots over the next five years.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:25 pm
#173
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SIN/PVG
Programs: Basement Lurker Club
Posts: 237
I just hope Parker fixes the hideous new tail. :-)
Feb 13, 2013, 8:28 pm
#174
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
Yes, it's oneworld, that's been known from the beginning that AA brand stays and it stays in oneworld.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:31 pm
#175
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin,TX (AUS)
Programs: AA, UA
Posts: 767
I wish that would be the case too, but I think whatever is most profitable will prevail, regardless of how good it is for us.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:32 pm
#176
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: LHR / IAD
Programs: BA/AA/UA
Posts: 2,955
You can write the regulatory agencies and share your ideas for what they should do to protect passengers and consumer choice among airlines. You can even suggest possible concessions for a combined AA-US.
... Tell the Feds what you want so they have some ideas and get the most out of them.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:32 pm
#177
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,035
1. If you all are leaving, dont let the door hit you in the crack on the way out. More upgrades
2. As a CP flying 150+ segments per year (75% Eastern time, 15% central, 10% pacific), I have had 4 flights I upgraded using miles, other than that, I have a 100% upgrade success for 27 months now. No stickers, nothing. Though our jalopies may be not the prettiest, the seats are big, and comfy and the beer is as cold in plastic, as it is in the occasional glass. That is what I am most worried about.
3. For frequent fliers, presumably for business, many of you must have failed business 101. You cant give the house away for cheap fares, coupled with union wages for long.
4. Step away from the keyboard for a week and lets see what happens. I moderate some other message forums and I would have locked this whine fest after post #2
2. As a CP flying 150+ segments per year (75% Eastern time, 15% central, 10% pacific), I have had 4 flights I upgraded using miles, other than that, I have a 100% upgrade success for 27 months now. No stickers, nothing. Though our jalopies may be not the prettiest, the seats are big, and comfy and the beer is as cold in plastic, as it is in the occasional glass. That is what I am most worried about.
3. For frequent fliers, presumably for business, many of you must have failed business 101. You cant give the house away for cheap fares, coupled with union wages for long.
4. Step away from the keyboard for a week and lets see what happens. I moderate some other message forums and I would have locked this whine fest after post #2
I was a CP for years but I reached the point that I could no longer stand dealing with the airline or the product. When I went to AA it was a stunning difference. I was treated better as a Plat than I was on US as a CP, and the planes and service were in a different class. You seem to be saying that wide seats are the main US draw. Indeed, but it is a pretty low bar.
I hit a million miles on UA just before the merger. And with the merger saw that million mile status severely downgraded. I am about 25,000 miles from 2 million miles on AA, and lifetime, who knows. But probably not Platinum, or at least not second tier. Maybe third tier, next to worthless, or nothing.
My real issue is upcoming flights. If I leave AA now I would probably hit 1K or whatever that level is on Delta for 2013. Part of me says wait it out, but part of me says there is no sense in wasting time. Or as former AG Mitchell used to reportedly say, "if you're going to eat ***, there is no sense nibbling on it". I have several transcons, a transpac and some TATL I was meeting with my assistant tomorrow to start booking. I'm really not sure what to do now. AA had some great things they announced for upcoming developments. I cant see anything like that happening now. I think an amateur hour of snack baskets, ads on trays and employees that dont give a damn is the future of AA. And it might be time to walk now rather than waste any more time flying them. The UA/CO and DL teams appear to try to be great airlines. I dont see that coming from US. I dont think it is their niche.
Feb 13, 2013, 8:33 pm
#178
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CHS
Programs: Lots
Posts: 1,012
For those of you who are cautiously hopeful I wish I could share your optimism. But can anyone come up with an example of an airline merger that actually benefited the consumer? They always seem to claim to with the expanded route network and all that but from observing the DL/NW merger and suffering through the CO takeover of UA I just fail to see how this could in any way be good news for anyone who actually flies (excepting of course the possibility that one or both of the carriers would have just ceased to exist).
Feb 13, 2013, 8:34 pm
#179
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Programs: AA EXP 1.0mm, not sure where I am with hotels these days
Posts: 2,795
Yeah, we'll see how it all fills out in the ensuing months, after the DoJ et al scrub this new baby. The first bit indicates it's speculative, and we'll just have to see how this all plays out. Speaking of speculation, anyone venture a guess how long this will all take? 18 - 24 months?
Feb 13, 2013, 8:37 pm
#180
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Programs: AA EXP 1.0mm, not sure where I am with hotels these days
Posts: 2,795
Good idea for a thread.
As reported several hours ago, both boards of directors today voted in favor of the merger.
The deal, as will be announced tomorrow, gives AA creditors 72% and US shareholders 28%.
The merger requires approval by the New York bankruptcy court judge and the Department of Justice; other regulatory authorities may look at the deal as well.
A formal announcement with more details will be out tomorrow.
As reported several hours ago, both boards of directors today voted in favor of the merger.
The deal, as will be announced tomorrow, gives AA creditors 72% and US shareholders 28%.
The merger requires approval by the New York bankruptcy court judge and the Department of Justice; other regulatory authorities may look at the deal as well.
A formal announcement with more details will be out tomorrow.