eponymous_coward

The reason why AA doesn't have anything in the NW is because they partner with AS: AS and AA actually have a deeper partnership than US and UA do, with reciprocal benefits for FFers of each program. I don't see that changing anytime soon, because it would drive AS into DL's arms, which AA most certainly does not want to do (AS and DL already have a tight relationship involving similar reciprocal benefits.)

Trying to move in on UA at SFO at the same time VX is burning cash like mad moving in on UA at SFO is a recipe to also burn cash like mad, and is generally a really bad idea, considering that AA could easily fight UA in four other markets without the ramp-up costs for a new focus city: LAX, CHI, NYC, and WAS.

Unless and until VX goes belly-up and UA really takes some heavy body blows, I don't see anyone making a major move in SFO.

Just because something is possible doesn't necessarily mean it's wise. Why expand at SFO when you have plenty to add at LAX? When ORD is well behind UA?

canyonleo

As a long-time EXP, I've been depressed all week. Just thinking of an EXP future that's anything similar to what 1k's have, or thinking of DL's FF program, has me sad all week.

It was nice while it lasted.

We're lucky EXP is so far above the current 1k that even with it becoming much worse, it will still be relatively competitive (with UA and DL, that is).

becket5

Why not save all the doom and gloom until we actually know what the future program will look like. Life's too short to waste time being depressed about something that's an unknown.

elitetraveler

SFO is already connected to all US hubs - CLT, PHL and PHX - the only thing I could think of is perhaps DCA - SFO since US/AA will be at 50 percent share there.

It seems clear that the 'conventional wisdom' of the current legacy management is focus on your hubs - I really can't see a lot of non-hub to non-hub flying particularly if it includes a competitor hub. VX seems to be proof even with a superior product, it's hard to make it work.

SafeFlyer

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B143 Safari/8536.25)

I agree, but are you new here?

Safe Travels

MetricFlyer

Elite member should be required to wear pins on their collars
to identify their status. (like the Federation uniform)

5 gold dots = 10 million miler
4 gold dots = million miler
3 gold dots = Executive Platinum
2 gold dots = Platinum
1 gold dots = Gold

That out to make it easier during the boarding process and meal service.

thewayofthefuture

I believe that would require another perimeter exemption. UA and VX went after the DCA-SFO slot last year, while US received SAN-DCA, among others.

MetricFlyer

to get government support, AA-US should ask for DCA-LCY.
(on AA-US metal, as well as jointly on BA metal)

Ambraciot

Can a J only narrow-body cover the distance?

If not, "What do you call a plane full of politicians at the bottom of the Atlantic?"

dcpatti

DCA does not have the immigrations facilities and while there can be pre-clearance done by stopping somewhere along the way, that blows the whole time/convenience factor of a nonstop right out of the water. LCY isn't a bad airport but why go there when you can go to IAD and have a true nonstop flight?

LHR sucks, but so does having to land, go through Immigration, then board and take off again. Might work on the outbound, not sure what facilitaties LCY has for International arrivals, but won't work on the return.

dcpatti

I'm one of the US elites, and I hate the idea. I honestly am not sure what I hate most about it: moving out of *A (which is a really nice, robust network with a lot of carriers), or going from being a big fish in a relatively small pond to being just another face in a huge crowd of elites fighting for an upgrade.

US has, and has always had, its fair share of warts. I can see some real benefits in having an IT department that isn't still running Windows 98. I'm going to find about 100 different IT-related things to love. And US' domestic first cabin isn't the best in breed but it has been consistently damn easy to get into it just on status alone. Yes, that's likely why it's not an awesome F cabin: if everyone's getting into it for free, no one wants to pay for it, so there's no budget to make it stellar. But for most domestic flights, a bigger chair, a decent meal (and US has made huge improvements there, especially compared to the recent F meals I've had on UA, bleurgh) and a few drinks are all I need. Customer service is always the wildcard with the airlines, and honestly the treatment I get at US has consistently been better than the nightmares that made me stop flying AA a few years back. So basically most of US' warts have been tolerable ones, and every airline has its share of warts anyway.

Bottom line, though: between some pretty stellar *A partner awards over the years, and the extremely generous and consistent upgrades, I'm just not feeling this at all. And that's before we even start talking about easy, lucrative promos (although I would imagine the new, combined carrier will have a few of those in its early days, to help keep attrition down).

Fortunately my husband is also top-tier with US, and my employer will arrange a status match with UA, so we're planning to start 2014 with some experiments, flying both carriers together for at least half the year, so we can decide if we're going to stick with AA/OneWorld (and our beloved DCA) or defect to UA where every trip will force us either into a connection or out to IAD but will at least keep us on Star.

I truly will be sad to think I've flown my last flight on Air New Zealand.

eponymous_coward

That's what was going on for quite some time with the LCY-JFK flight BA flew- preclearance at SNN (you also can't fly a fully fueled A318 out of LCY because the runways are too short, they have to top up at SNN).

tom911

Status match to UA 1K? I think you're biggest loss there, compared to being a new AA flyer, will be having to buy up to a higher fare to use your systemwide upgrades on international flights (6 per year, no refund of fare difference if you don't clear). At AA we don't buy up to a higher fare and get 8 per year. If you read the UA forum you'll see a lot of complaints about upgrades being sold out from under elites and there's even a master thread about systemwides not clearing. I wouldn't be able to contribute to a similar AA thread, if we had one, as I've cleared 100% for 12 years, including 6 for a trip with friends starting this weekend (via LHR, an airport I actually don't mind once you get the layout and transfer situation down--the first class lounges make up for some of that, another AA perk for EXP flyers).

Do report back how things work out on the UA side. I just don't get the sense things are improving much there.

dcpatti

Oh yeah I'm not saying UA is all rainbows and unicorns, by any means! Only that the program might actually work better for me, mainly based on *A. I do have to go to Toronto fairly regularly for work, and AC is the best option. My other international travel for work is not frequent; for personal travel, we do 1-2 long trips a year, usually to destinations where partners in either alliance offer better service/coverage than USA-based carriers, and that's where we use our miles. Our US version of SWU's are usually used on random no-reason trips and I do know that UA wants a higher fare bucket but availability/ease of use trumps all. E+ to Europe is fine though--- yes, J/F is better, but it's a short 7 hours across, I can live if I've got daydreams of Asiana first class to keep me company.

Any loyalty program is a trade-off. Just trying to see which way works best for me. I just can't get the warm-and-fuzzies over OneWorld yet. Yes there are some fine, world-class carriers, but there are many more fine, world-class carriers in Star. And the partner awards are a big part of why I can deal with a lot of work travel. I won't do it if I don't get good "goodies."

You won't sell me on lhr though; I'm there 4 times a year if not more, to visit my in-laws, and it is consistently a pain. Missing lgw already. Won't stop going there, of course, but won't stop whining about it either.

Regardless, I'm glad we as a couple have a chance to do a real apples-to-apples comparison. Will be taking and sharing notes

Wilbur

Just a few points for those who are sad about losing their place in *A for an entrance to 1W follow below.

1. *A has a great network in theory, but trying to redeem J or F on SQ isn't child's play. Air New Zealand is a fine airline, and the food on ANA is excellent, and the coverage for Europe from the LH group is outstanding, but the UA/CO mess isn't solved by a longshot, and the repercussions not yet fully understood. Plus, SAS!

2. 1W has fewer airline partners, but the quality of said partners is rather more consistent. CX service on the ground and in the air is excellent, and BA, Finnair, JL, LAN, IB, and Qantas all have generally positive outcomes (with some exceptions that prove the rule that we expect them to do well by their passengers). 50% of the 1W airlines are 5-star airlines per SkyTraxx, if that has any value to you, far superior to the other alliances. I also have good expectations for Malaysia and Air Berlin for the future. In addition, you have a slightly better set of Alaska Airlines and WestJet perks than before.

3. Just think - at least you aren't going to deal with SkyTeam, the grab bag of the air leftovers! Alitalia! Areoflot! The rump of Northworst! China Eastern! Garuda! Hooray!