Inaugural AA963 777-300ER / 77W DFW-GRU 31 Jan 2013 (photos)

 
Old Jan 31, 2013, 2:48 pm
  #16  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by Antarius
First class

First class view


Seat

Isn't this business class?
corporateslave is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 2:48 pm
  #17  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles & Orange County, CA
Programs: Wouldn't you like to know?!
Posts: 23,822
Originally Posted by morrisunc
The business class pitch looks tighter than us envoy class. Is it the same seat?
It's essentially the same, with AA's (or CX's) being the next generation. Having flown both seats, I prefer AA's. US is identical to DL's.
BlissWorld is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 2:49 pm
  #18  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Thanks for the report. The flight is far from sold out (except for F, where I guess it's filled with AA mgt and invitees): J7 R7 D1 I0 Y7 B7 H7 K7 M7 L0 V0 G0 S0 N0 Q0 O0. From the seatmap, there are 9 unassigned seats.

Originally Posted by JDiver
the new Business is quite reminiscent of Cathay's,
That's because it's the same exact seat, the Cirrus by Sicma/Zodiac designed by JPA design. Having flown it, I like it. A whole lot., actually a ton. I would not be surprised if it's the best J seat in the sky at the moment; finally AA made a correct decision after the 1996 fiasco of the current J seats.
hillrider is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 2:51 pm
  #19  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,122
Originally Posted by corporateslave
Isn't this business class?
Yes. Sorry about that. Updated my OP.
Antarius is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:03 pm
  #20  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,511
Thanks for the pics! It looks like AA now has an industry-leading business class product.

However, the hard product in First Class now isn't very differentiated from business. In fact, in some of the pics, I had a little trouble telling if I was looking at F or J.

Based on the CX seat maps, AA could have fit roughly 28 J seats between the first and second set of doors, compared to 16 premium seats in the current configuration (8F + 8J).

I wonder if AA will really be able to sell enough F seats at a premium over J per flight to off-set the net loss of 12 premium cabin seats if AA went instead with a 2-class product (or 3 classes if you're counting MCE).

Now with a business class product that is ever closer to first class in terms of space and comfort, it's hard for me to believe that a F cabin is really worth it given the real estate it takes up on the plane.
BizJet is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:04 pm
  #21  
Moderator: American AAdvantage
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Matre-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
You will soon be visited by "the enforcers" for using "logic" and "airline" in the same sentence! Then again, since logic would dicate they use wider seats in MCE, they were illogical. Or not.

I verified and chatted with jspira to re-verify - same seats in MCE and MC, same width. The only differentiation is the seat pitch and 3-3-3 seating. I am wondering if AA will some day upgrade the cabin to be a genuine premium economy product they can charge more for, and keep in step with the oneworld airlines that already offers such a product (BA, CX, JL and QF, anyway - and if there are more, somenoe else will quickly chime in).

Originally Posted by FWAAA
Since wider aisles don't contribute very much to comfort on a 10-16 hour flight, logic would indicate that AA would use the wider seats in MCE. As they are configured nine across, they're probably the same width as the existing 772 economy seats. As for the 10-across E- seats, ughh.
JDiver is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:05 pm
  #22  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Originally Posted by Antarius
8 f
52 j
30 mce

Why does my f,j and mce get turned into lower case??
It's a board feature to prevent people from posting in all caps. I believe if your post begins with some normal intial cap/lowercase text, then you're permitted to use some caps as in your seating configuration table.

As to the numbers - a mere 30 MCE is miserly, IMO. What I find striking about AA's implementation of MCE is how small the MCE seatcount is on the widebodies. On the single-aisle planes, MCE is limited by the placement of the exit rows, and total number of seats in MCE isn't so stingy. On the 763s and now, on the 300+ seat 77Ws, allocating just 30 seats to MCE is about half what it should be, IMO.
FWAAA is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:08 pm
  #23  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,424
Originally Posted by BizJet
Thanks for the pics! It looks like AA now has an industry-leading business class product.
AA may have caught up to some of the better hard products, but there is more to the business class product than just the seat and unless they do work on the rest of the product, I would not try calling AA's business class "industry leading"
Dave Noble is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:08 pm
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles & Orange County, CA
Programs: Wouldn't you like to know?!
Posts: 23,822
Originally Posted by BizJet
Thanks for the pics! It looks like AA now has an industry-leading business class product.

However, the hard product in First Class now isn't very differentiated from business. In fact, in some of the pics, I had a little trouble telling if I was looking at F or J.

Based on the CX seat maps, AA could have fit roughly 28 J seats between the first and second set of doors, compared to 16 premium seats in the current configuration (8F + 8J).

I wonder if AA will really be able to sell enough F seats at a premium over J per flight to off-set the net loss of 12 premium cabin seats if AA went instead with a 2-class product (or 3 classes if you're counting MCE).

Now with a business class product that is ever closer to first class in terms of space and comfort, it's hard for me to believe that a F cabin is really worth it given the real estate it takes up on the plane.
F is far more different than J. J is still J, tight and restricted, where as you get far more personal space in F. You will know once you get onboard and actually try the products yourself. AA is also now doing a good job differentiating soft products between F and J

Also, I wouldn't exactly call it industry leading because those seats have been around for a while (CX). There are also other J products I prefer that give me more privacy like the staggered seats (DL, AB new J, TG A380 J, EX 380J, etc etc). I would say that AA is now comparable to other leading airlines.
BlissWorld is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:09 pm
  #25  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,122
Originally Posted by FWAAA
It's a board feature to prevent people from posting in all caps. I believe if your post begins with some normal intial cap/lowercase text, then you're permitted to use some caps as in your seating configuration table.

As to the numbers - a mere 30 MCE is miserly, IMO. What I find striking about AA's implementation of MCE is how small the MCE seatcount is on the widebodies. On the single-aisle planes, MCE is limited by the placement of the exit rows, and total number of seats in MCE isn't so stingy. On the 763s and now, on the 300+ seat 77Ws, allocating just 30 seats to MCE is about half what it should be, IMO.
Ah ha! Good to know. Also a good feature to have (i can only imagine the crazy rants that we get in all caps )

Regarding MCE - I wonder if this decision was made based on the number of leisure vs. business travelers on the international routes. If they put more MCE in and people were unwilling to pay, they would be giving it away for free and losing revenue.

Does anyone know/have an idea on how to find UA's Y+ load levels for domestic vs. international?
Antarius is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:13 pm
  #26  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXPLT
Posts: 99
Just walked by it having flown in on 51 from London. Looks very nice indeed. Will need to work in a trip over the next few months before it gets trashed.
thetaxman is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:13 pm
  #27  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,511
Originally Posted by BlissWorld
F is far more different than J. J is still J, tight and restricted, where as you get far more personal space in F. You will know once you get onboard and actually try the products yourself. AA is also now doing a good job differentiating soft products between F and J
I'm obviously not saying that there isn't any space difference. But I am arguing that as J gets better, demand for F goes down. I think fewer and fewer corporate customers, for example, would pay for F nowadays when you can get a solid night's sleep in a business class flat bed and arrived refreshed. That leaves F for (a) the few still willing to pay a premium over J and (b) business class customers incentivized to fly AA by a upgrade to F.

Given the economics on the plane every single F seat replaces 2.5 J seats I would be surprised if the demand for first class fares plus the demand for J fares that would otherwise book away from AA if not for the ability to upgrade to F is sufficient to justify the cabin.
BizJet is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:16 pm
  #28  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Originally Posted by JDiver
You will soon be visited by "the enforcers" for using "logic" and "airline" in the same sentence! Then again, since logic would dicate they use wider seats in MCE, they were illogical. Or not.

I verified and chatted with jspira to re-verify - same seats in MCE and MC, same width. The only differentiation is the seat pitch and 3-3-3 seating. I am wondering if AA will some day upgrade the cabin to be a genuine premium economy product they can charge more for, and keep in step with the oneworld airlines that already offers such a product (BA, CX, JL and QF, anyway - and if there are more, somenoe else will quickly chime in).


So AA will forego the revenue from four MCE seats in exchange for several linear feet of wider aisles? All the while, squishing the elites and the buy-up nonelites into a needlessly skinny seat? That makes no sense at all.

No wonder AA is in bankruptcy.
FWAAA is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:16 pm
  #29  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: AUS / DXB
Programs: BA Silver | AA LT Gold | EY Silver | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,838
Originally Posted by Dave Noble
AA may have caught up to some of the better hard products, but there is more to the business class product than just the seat and unless they do work on the rest of the product, I would not try calling AA's business class "industry leading"
True, but it is fair to say that the hard product (especially on long haul flights) makes up the majority of what is considered to be the 'overall' product. To compare to EK, an airline many perceive as being premium, the new hard product is far superior to anything they offer in J, except for the A380 product (and this new product is at least on par with the A380 product). And EK has no plans to retrofit its non-A380 fleet with the A380 product, while AA does have a similar plan for the rest of its widebody fleet.

As far as oneworld is concerned, this is far superior to anything the other carriers offer, with the exception of CX (not sure about AB's new seat). Certainly superior to BA's current generation CW product (and it is disappointing BA have chosen not to upgrade their CW product with the arrival of the A380s and 787s, but that is a whole different discussion).
Hyperacusis is offline  
Old Jan 31, 2013, 3:23 pm
  #30  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
Originally Posted by no1cub17
Seriously. All this brouhaha by AA about new product/new branding/enhanced product - should have a huge asterisk by it. Surprised AA doesn't realize that some of their most loyal flyers aren't always plumping down the cash for F or J - that there's a lot of us who regularly fly AA (on our own dime might I add) that would've appreciated at least keeping the Y product acceptable.
Here's the truth, hard as it may be to hear: If you aren't paying for J/F and aren't flying Y enough that you'll have comped access to MCE (PLT and EXP after this year, GLD, PLT, EXP for now) then you don't fly AA "regularly" enough for your comfort to really matter to the airline.
Upgraded! is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.