Inaugural AA963 777-300ER / 77W DFW-GRU 31 Jan 2013 (photos)
#17
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#18
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Thanks for the report. The flight is far from sold out (except for F, where I guess it's filled with AA mgt and invitees): J7 R7 D1 I0 Y7 B7 H7 K7 M7 L0 V0 G0 S0 N0 Q0 O0. From the seatmap, there are 9 unassigned seats.
That's because it's the same exact seat, the Cirrus by Sicma/Zodiac designed by JPA design. Having flown it, I like it. A whole lot., actually a ton. I would not be surprised if it's the best J seat in the sky at the moment; finally AA made a correct decision after the 1996 fiasco of the current J seats.
That's because it's the same exact seat, the Cirrus by Sicma/Zodiac designed by JPA design. Having flown it, I like it. A whole lot., actually a ton. I would not be surprised if it's the best J seat in the sky at the moment; finally AA made a correct decision after the 1996 fiasco of the current J seats.
#19
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#20
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Thanks for the pics! It looks like AA now has an industry-leading business class product.
However, the hard product in First Class now isn't very differentiated from business. In fact, in some of the pics, I had a little trouble telling if I was looking at F or J.
Based on the CX seat maps, AA could have fit roughly 28 J seats between the first and second set of doors, compared to 16 premium seats in the current configuration (8F + 8J).
I wonder if AA will really be able to sell enough F seats at a premium over J per flight to off-set the net loss of 12 premium cabin seats if AA went instead with a 2-class product (or 3 classes if you're counting MCE).
Now with a business class product that is ever closer to first class in terms of space and comfort, it's hard for me to believe that a F cabin is really worth it given the real estate it takes up on the plane.
However, the hard product in First Class now isn't very differentiated from business. In fact, in some of the pics, I had a little trouble telling if I was looking at F or J.
Based on the CX seat maps, AA could have fit roughly 28 J seats between the first and second set of doors, compared to 16 premium seats in the current configuration (8F + 8J).
I wonder if AA will really be able to sell enough F seats at a premium over J per flight to off-set the net loss of 12 premium cabin seats if AA went instead with a 2-class product (or 3 classes if you're counting MCE).
Now with a business class product that is ever closer to first class in terms of space and comfort, it's hard for me to believe that a F cabin is really worth it given the real estate it takes up on the plane.
#21
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You will soon be visited by "the enforcers" for using "logic" and "airline" in the same sentence! Then again, since logic would dicate they use wider seats in MCE, they were illogical. Or not.
I verified and chatted with jspira to re-verify - same seats in MCE and MC, same width. The only differentiation is the seat pitch and 3-3-3 seating. I am wondering if AA will some day upgrade the cabin to be a genuine premium economy product they can charge more for, and keep in step with the oneworld airlines that already offers such a product (BA, CX, JL and QF, anyway - and if there are more, somenoe else will quickly chime in).
I verified and chatted with jspira to re-verify - same seats in MCE and MC, same width. The only differentiation is the seat pitch and 3-3-3 seating. I am wondering if AA will some day upgrade the cabin to be a genuine premium economy product they can charge more for, and keep in step with the oneworld airlines that already offers such a product (BA, CX, JL and QF, anyway - and if there are more, somenoe else will quickly chime in).
Since wider aisles don't contribute very much to comfort on a 10-16 hour flight, logic would indicate that AA would use the wider seats in MCE. As they are configured nine across, they're probably the same width as the existing 772 economy seats. As for the 10-across E- seats, ughh.
#22
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It's a board feature to prevent people from posting in all caps. I believe if your post begins with some normal intial cap/lowercase text, then you're permitted to use some caps as in your seating configuration table.
As to the numbers - a mere 30 MCE is miserly, IMO. What I find striking about AA's implementation of MCE is how small the MCE seatcount is on the widebodies. On the single-aisle planes, MCE is limited by the placement of the exit rows, and total number of seats in MCE isn't so stingy. On the 763s and now, on the 300+ seat 77Ws, allocating just 30 seats to MCE is about half what it should be, IMO.
As to the numbers - a mere 30 MCE is miserly, IMO. What I find striking about AA's implementation of MCE is how small the MCE seatcount is on the widebodies. On the single-aisle planes, MCE is limited by the placement of the exit rows, and total number of seats in MCE isn't so stingy. On the 763s and now, on the 300+ seat 77Ws, allocating just 30 seats to MCE is about half what it should be, IMO.
#23
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AA may have caught up to some of the better hard products, but there is more to the business class product than just the seat and unless they do work on the rest of the product, I would not try calling AA's business class "industry leading"
#24
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Thanks for the pics! It looks like AA now has an industry-leading business class product.
However, the hard product in First Class now isn't very differentiated from business. In fact, in some of the pics, I had a little trouble telling if I was looking at F or J.
Based on the CX seat maps, AA could have fit roughly 28 J seats between the first and second set of doors, compared to 16 premium seats in the current configuration (8F + 8J).
I wonder if AA will really be able to sell enough F seats at a premium over J per flight to off-set the net loss of 12 premium cabin seats if AA went instead with a 2-class product (or 3 classes if you're counting MCE).
Now with a business class product that is ever closer to first class in terms of space and comfort, it's hard for me to believe that a F cabin is really worth it given the real estate it takes up on the plane.
However, the hard product in First Class now isn't very differentiated from business. In fact, in some of the pics, I had a little trouble telling if I was looking at F or J.
Based on the CX seat maps, AA could have fit roughly 28 J seats between the first and second set of doors, compared to 16 premium seats in the current configuration (8F + 8J).
I wonder if AA will really be able to sell enough F seats at a premium over J per flight to off-set the net loss of 12 premium cabin seats if AA went instead with a 2-class product (or 3 classes if you're counting MCE).
Now with a business class product that is ever closer to first class in terms of space and comfort, it's hard for me to believe that a F cabin is really worth it given the real estate it takes up on the plane.
Also, I wouldn't exactly call it industry leading because those seats have been around for a while (CX). There are also other J products I prefer that give me more privacy like the staggered seats (DL, AB new J, TG A380 J, EX 380J, etc etc). I would say that AA is now comparable to other leading airlines.
#25
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It's a board feature to prevent people from posting in all caps. I believe if your post begins with some normal intial cap/lowercase text, then you're permitted to use some caps as in your seating configuration table.
As to the numbers - a mere 30 MCE is miserly, IMO. What I find striking about AA's implementation of MCE is how small the MCE seatcount is on the widebodies. On the single-aisle planes, MCE is limited by the placement of the exit rows, and total number of seats in MCE isn't so stingy. On the 763s and now, on the 300+ seat 77Ws, allocating just 30 seats to MCE is about half what it should be, IMO.
As to the numbers - a mere 30 MCE is miserly, IMO. What I find striking about AA's implementation of MCE is how small the MCE seatcount is on the widebodies. On the single-aisle planes, MCE is limited by the placement of the exit rows, and total number of seats in MCE isn't so stingy. On the 763s and now, on the 300+ seat 77Ws, allocating just 30 seats to MCE is about half what it should be, IMO.
Regarding MCE - I wonder if this decision was made based on the number of leisure vs. business travelers on the international routes. If they put more MCE in and people were unwilling to pay, they would be giving it away for free and losing revenue.
Does anyone know/have an idea on how to find UA's Y+ load levels for domestic vs. international?
#26
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Just walked by it having flown in on 51 from London. Looks very nice indeed. Will need to work in a trip over the next few months before it gets trashed.
#27
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Given the economics on the plane every single F seat replaces 2.5 J seats I would be surprised if the demand for first class fares plus the demand for J fares that would otherwise book away from AA if not for the ability to upgrade to F is sufficient to justify the cabin.
#28
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You will soon be visited by "the enforcers" for using "logic" and "airline" in the same sentence! Then again, since logic would dicate they use wider seats in MCE, they were illogical. Or not.
I verified and chatted with jspira to re-verify - same seats in MCE and MC, same width. The only differentiation is the seat pitch and 3-3-3 seating. I am wondering if AA will some day upgrade the cabin to be a genuine premium economy product they can charge more for, and keep in step with the oneworld airlines that already offers such a product (BA, CX, JL and QF, anyway - and if there are more, somenoe else will quickly chime in).
I verified and chatted with jspira to re-verify - same seats in MCE and MC, same width. The only differentiation is the seat pitch and 3-3-3 seating. I am wondering if AA will some day upgrade the cabin to be a genuine premium economy product they can charge more for, and keep in step with the oneworld airlines that already offers such a product (BA, CX, JL and QF, anyway - and if there are more, somenoe else will quickly chime in).
So AA will forego the revenue from four MCE seats in exchange for several linear feet of wider aisles? All the while, squishing the elites and the buy-up nonelites into a needlessly skinny seat? That makes no sense at all.
No wonder AA is in bankruptcy.
#29
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As far as oneworld is concerned, this is far superior to anything the other carriers offer, with the exception of CX (not sure about AB's new seat). Certainly superior to BA's current generation CW product (and it is disappointing BA have chosen not to upgrade their CW product with the arrival of the A380s and 787s, but that is a whole different discussion).
#30
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Seriously. All this brouhaha by AA about new product/new branding/enhanced product - should have a huge asterisk by it. Surprised AA doesn't realize that some of their most loyal flyers aren't always plumping down the cash for F or J - that there's a lot of us who regularly fly AA (on our own dime might I add) that would've appreciated at least keeping the Y product acceptable.