Speculation: Is AA preparing for carry-on fees?
Sep 3, 2012, 9:43 pm
#76
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Michigan
Programs: AA EXP(4mm), DL Gold, UA Gold (1mm), HH Diamond, Bonvoy Amb(l/t Titanium). Former EA/PA elite
Posts: 993
The carry-on bag situation at the legacies is totally out of control....well at least at AA and UA whom I fly alot. I do not see this as just an AA problem.
My 2 cents is that airlines should allow the first checked bag to be free for everyone as an incentive to check luggage rather than carry it on. I'm for most folks being allowed one carry-on and then being charged twice the price of a checked bag to have the Luxury of carrying it board. However the airlines structure it, there needs to be a strong incentive to not carry-on luggage. Elites can be exempt but the size of carry-on bags should be more strictly controlled.
My 2 cents is that airlines should allow the first checked bag to be free for everyone as an incentive to check luggage rather than carry it on. I'm for most folks being allowed one carry-on and then being charged twice the price of a checked bag to have the Luxury of carrying it board. However the airlines structure it, there needs to be a strong incentive to not carry-on luggage. Elites can be exempt but the size of carry-on bags should be more strictly controlled.
Sep 3, 2012, 10:49 pm
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Same for B6. See excellent report from an EXP very frequent traveler blogger here: http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemil...much%E2%80%A6/
Sep 3, 2012, 10:59 pm
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Baggage fees had exactly one year to be "an afterthought". Once bitten, twice shy, plus all the advertising and word of mouth by Southwest
and JetBlue and even those who fly 1x/year know to check about the fees when shopping.
Baggage fees are indeed decreasing, not increasing, as people are now aware of them and plan around them as much as possible (carry-on, fly WN/B6, drive instead of flying, ship ahead, bag-fee-waiving credit card etc.). From the article: DL fee revenue was down 9.2 percent in 2011 despite a 2.3 percent increase in passengers, UA's was down 11.8 percent vs. a 6.7 percent drop in passengers.
and JetBlue and even those who fly 1x/year know to check about the fees when shopping.
Baggage fees are indeed decreasing, not increasing, as people are now aware of them and plan around them as much as possible (carry-on, fly WN/B6, drive instead of flying, ship ahead, bag-fee-waiving credit card etc.). From the article: DL fee revenue was down 9.2 percent in 2011 despite a 2.3 percent increase in passengers, UA's was down 11.8 percent vs. a 6.7 percent drop in passengers.
Sep 3, 2012, 11:22 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
You're also talking about an industry that will try to save a buck wherever it can from taking olives out of salads to removing pillows. And fees are one of its first breakthroughs in finding new revenue streams.
Certainly both DL and UA in recent years put fare restrictions on using SWUs. It could be that at some point even elites don't have certain fees waived when they are traveling on very low fares.
Certainly both DL and UA in recent years put fare restrictions on using SWUs. It could be that at some point even elites don't have certain fees waived when they are traveling on very low fares.
Sep 3, 2012, 11:31 pm
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
I travel to SF for both business and leasure (domestic). In 1995, a discounted Y JFK-SFO cost $300 RT. Now I am still able to score such a ticket on Thanksgiving for under $400. How much did fuel and wages go up during these times?
I think $30 carryon fee is very fair. I never have checked bag on domestic trips. My carryon hold enough clothes to last 8 days.
I think $30 carryon fee is very fair. I never have checked bag on domestic trips. My carryon hold enough clothes to last 8 days.
Last edited by mvoight; Sep 4, 2012 at 4:44 am
Sep 3, 2012, 11:34 pm
#81
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
I absolutely agree that they will start to put the carry-on allowance as part of an 'optional' Y add-on package. I think there is no coincidence that some of the OTAs like Priceline (retail not opaque) are now able to sell Premium AA seats. There had to be the system setup to allow distribution of such 'ancillary' sales otherwise, it would be hard for AA to go the Spirit route.
I wish we would get a free checked bag if carry-on allowance is reduced (I am guessing it will go to one personal item not the one large piece plus personal), but I doubt the system will go backwards.
Now what is interesting to all as any frequent traveler knows is that because of the checked baggage charges almost any flight with a decent load gets a free check-in offer at the gate (although delivered to baggage claim). So, either way the airline was taking the bag for free it seems.
Rasheed
Sep 4, 2012, 12:23 am
#82
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DFW
Programs: AA CK/MM, Centurion
Posts: 338
Baggage fees had exactly one year to be "an afterthought". Once bitten, twice shy, plus all the advertising and word of mouth by Southwest
and JetBlue and even those who fly 1x/year know to check about the fees when shopping.
Baggage fees are indeed decreasing, not increasing, as people are now aware of them and plan around them as much as possible (carry-on, fly WN/B6, drive instead of flying, ship ahead, bag-fee-waiving credit card etc.). From the article: DL fee revenue was down 9.2 percent in 2011 despite a 2.3 percent increase in passengers, UA's was down 11.8 percent vs. a 6.7 percent drop in passengers.
and JetBlue and even those who fly 1x/year know to check about the fees when shopping.
Baggage fees are indeed decreasing, not increasing, as people are now aware of them and plan around them as much as possible (carry-on, fly WN/B6, drive instead of flying, ship ahead, bag-fee-waiving credit card etc.). From the article: DL fee revenue was down 9.2 percent in 2011 despite a 2.3 percent increase in passengers, UA's was down 11.8 percent vs. a 6.7 percent drop in passengers.
For cash-strapped airlines, that sort of revenue must seem like manna from heaven, especially as airlines struggle to maintain profitability in tough times. To put it in perspective, without the $864 million that Delta earned in baggage fees last year, the airline’s net operating income of $854 million would instead have been a $10 million loss.
“If people are charged to check a bag and not charged to take it on the plane, the inclination is to try to put more and more and more into their carry-ons,” said Allegiant spokeswoman Jessica Wheeler. “It slows the boarding process and it’s not fair to the people who do follow the rules.”
It may also prove to be a good source of ancillary revenue. Last year, the carrier earned $53.5 million in baggage fees, down slightly from $55 million in 2010. Spirit, on the other hand, earned almost $134 million, up 65 percent from the year before.
It may also prove to be a good source of ancillary revenue. Last year, the carrier earned $53.5 million in baggage fees, down slightly from $55 million in 2010. Spirit, on the other hand, earned almost $134 million, up 65 percent from the year before.
Whether fee revenue is declining or increasing, it's still a very substantial chunk of income today's broke airlines would otherwise be without. The fees are here to stay. As long as jet A is as expensive as it is today, the airlines will have to make money somehow, or there will be no more airlines. Simple as that. Any business cannot operate a plan that consistently puts them in the red unless they want to shut their doors. When you ship a package via air freight, you are charged by weight. Why should it be any different if you want to haul 150 lbs. worth of baggage along with you? The glory days are far over, from a pragmatic standpoint. You pay for what you bring, 50 lbs. rollaboard included.
Sep 4, 2012, 3:50 am
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,209
These fees stink for everyone, I wish they would just include everything in the price of the ticket like they used to do.
Sep 4, 2012, 4:50 am
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
I see nothing wrong in paying extra for something not required by everyone else. Handling checked baggage costs money, and I see nothing wrong with only the people checking bags to pay for it. On the other hand, fuel surcharges are ridiculous. It might make some sense as a temporary measure, but this has been going on for a while. Since fuel surcharges are paid at the time of ticket purchase, there is no reason the fuel surcharge needs to be a separate ticket item. It's like itemizing the crew salary, equipment lease costs, landing fees, etc. A plane with fuel is required by everyone. Checked baggage isn't.
Sep 4, 2012, 4:56 am
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Airline nobody. Sad!
Posts: 26,062
Totally hard to say how it will play out. My only point is that the success of fees has made the non-elite traveling on a discounted coach ticket a much more valuable commodity. And the more fees they can charge the person, the more valuable at least for that single flight.
Sep 4, 2012, 6:40 am
#86
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: HHonors Gold, Marriott Lifetime Gold, IHG Gold, OZ*G, AA Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 1,874
Maybe on US-domestic, but they're going to lose TPAC traffic with that attitude. For someone who doesn't care about earning mileage CX would suddenly look a lot better (and for someone who does there's always JL, even if AA does get their money by flying them anyway due to ATI).
Sep 4, 2012, 6:57 am
#87
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
It can all get very nasty: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19472921
Sep 4, 2012, 7:10 am
#88
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,952
Until the airlines take 100% responsibility for all checked bags for any and all reasons for loss/damage/TSA theft, no one should ever have to pay a dime to check or carry on a bag.
Sep 4, 2012, 8:57 am
#89
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador, AA EXP
Posts: 2,702
Also, we forget that AA needs people to buy their discount fares. They won't make the flight profitable without kettles in addition to business travelers. Rather than looking at it individually and see how much each person's seat mile payment is, look at it collectively as a group.
Sep 4, 2012, 11:55 am
#90
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Stockholm, Sweden + Austin, Tx
Programs: "But, I'm a GLOBALIST guest...."
Posts: 2,848