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OLCI purchased upgrade offer to non-elite before elite upgrades processed

OLCI purchased upgrade offer to non-elite before elite upgrades processed

 
Old Aug 22, 2012, 11:42 am
  #226  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,407
Originally Posted by Mark_T
Hard to read it any other way once it is clear that they are not actually clearing the wait-list before offering LFBU.

I do agree that it is not how I originally understood that text so I can clearly see why others would also read it differently.
Knowing that AA meant "gamble" when it said "determine" does not mean that one should read "determine" as "gamble." That's a bit too much of "`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'"

They should clarify their policy. I bet almost everyone who reads the Q&A, etc. understands it as you originally read it.
Originally Posted by Mark_T
Now I am clear on what it means and what they are doing I'm still not really all that worried about it.

The sky is not actually falling yet
I'll agree with that
richarddd is offline  
Old Aug 22, 2012, 11:46 am
  #227  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 526
Originally Posted by Science Goy
No, I got your point. My point was that the irrops could have happened between the time your grandson got the upgrade and departure. This seems to have been the case in a few other purported instances of LFBUs trumping elites.
The point is he should not have been offered an upgrade at OLCI when my wife and I were on the upgrade list and had not cleared.
vail is offline  
Old Aug 22, 2012, 11:56 am
  #228  
 
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Originally Posted by vail
The point is he should not have been offered an upgrade at OLCI when my wife and I were on the upgrade list and had not cleared.
I suspect that in many cases like yours the 'correct' outcome if RM had complete foreknowledge would have been that your grandson would not have got the upgrade and neither would you or your wife.

When IRROPS dumps a bunch of unexpected passengers onto the flight they could probably have filled the spaces just from paid F alone, never mind upgrade requests.

The sale of the LFBU is not likely to be the proximate cause of your lack of upgrade, there was probably someone else booked in paid F on another flight with a lot more reason to feel aggrieved
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 12:08 pm
  #229  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by Mark_T
I suspect that in many cases like yours the 'correct' outcome if RM had complete foreknowledge would have been that your grandson would not have got the upgrade and neither would you or your wife.

When IRROPS dumps a bunch of unexpected passengers onto the flight they could probably have filled the spaces just from paid F alone, never mind upgrade requests.

The sale of the LFBU is not likely to be the proximate cause of your lack of upgrade, there was probably someone else booked in paid F on another flight with a lot more reason to feel aggrieved
No IRROPS--stop adding nonsense scenario's to the facts.
One flight per day--no cancellation the day before.
Just a normal full flight--with the F cabin being A0 from the time I booked.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 12:11 pm
  #230  
 
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Originally Posted by Mark_T
I suspect that in many cases like yours the 'correct' outcome if RM had complete foreknowledge would have been that your grandson would not have got the upgrade and neither would you or your wife.

When IRROPS dumps a bunch of unexpected passengers onto the flight they could probably have filled the spaces just from paid F alone, never mind upgrade requests.

The sale of the LFBU is not likely to be the proximate cause of your lack of upgrade, there was probably someone else booked in paid F on another flight with a lot more reason to feel aggrieved
How do we know it was irrpos and not paying F passengers switching to an alternate flight? Regardless of what transpired, there was a non-elite in F when an upgrade or paid F passenger was denied the seat.

With mounting evidence that the online LFBU system is flawed I'm surprised the defense it is getting. Yes the evidence can be called anecdotal or unverifiable but AA choosing to remain silent on the issue is also not helping matters.

There is also the issue of passengers who do not request the upgrade until they get to the airport. Yes, we FTers have no sympathy for them, but from AA's perspective, that is a problem they are ignoring when it comes to offering online LFBUs.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 12:17 pm
  #231  
 
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Originally Posted by sukn
How do we know it was irrpos and not paying F passengers switching to an alternate flight? Regardless of what transpired, there was a non-elite in F when an upgrade or paid F passenger was denied the seat.
Happy to concede that point, in an ideal world, as I said, the grandson would not have been in that seat.

I just don't see it as that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

As long as we stay in the realms of it working out fine the vast majority of the time then I'm not bothered.

Out of thousands of flights we are struggling to find even a handful of examples where it went wrong.

If that changes then my view may change, but until then I'm prepared to give RM enough slack to keep trying to make money where they can ...
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 1:20 pm
  #232  
 
Join Date: May 2009
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1. I think that had AA's response to the very straight-forwardly worded FAQ of "Will the Confirmed Upgrade option reduce the number of premium class seats available to full-fare and AAdvantage elite customers?" been "We don't think so" or "It shouldn't" or even "Rarely, if ever", then perhaps fewer people would have interpreted it to mean "No". Instead, AA's response was "No." The fact that the "No." was followed by AA's reasoning for that "No.", doesn't change how the "No." is interpreted until events occur that make people go back and re-look at the answer (which still doesn't change the fact that the answer was "No.").

2. The fact that there are few reports, does not convince me that there have been few occurrences. It seems likely to me that, if there have been more than the reported occurrences, even those with a more sophisticated understanding of the upgrading system, could easily have missed them.

3. Did I just not notice it before or has there been a big increase in responding to posts one does not agree with by accusing the poster of being hysterical, a chicken little, or litigious? (This question is only mildly prompted by this thread.)
Ord Liza is offline  
Old Aug 22, 2012, 2:04 pm
  #233  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Wild Speculation!!

I think OP is a plAAnt to create these conversations to measure reactions to possible upcoming changes!!! How's that for coming out of left field!
BTW, I was on 31 to HNL yesterday in F w/6 unoccupied seats and one NRSA.
bareflanks is offline  
Old Aug 22, 2012, 2:15 pm
  #234  
 
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Originally Posted by Mark_T
Happy to concede that point, in an ideal world, as I said, the grandson would not have been in that seat.

I just don't see it as that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

As long as we stay in the realms of it working out fine the vast majority of the time then I'm not bothered.

Out of thousands of flights we are struggling to find even a handful of examples where it went wrong.

If that changes then my view may change, but until then I'm prepared to give RM enough slack to keep trying to make money where they can ...
We can at least agree that all AA elites have a vested interest in keeping the airline solvent. Beyond that, AA's upgrade list is not transparent, say like on other airlines that publish the upgrade list online, so we will always struggle to find examples that can then be substantiated after the fact. However, that doesn't prove AA's approach is working out fine the vast majority of the time.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 3:04 pm
  #235  
brp
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Originally Posted by vail
No IRROPS--stop adding nonsense scenario's to the facts.
One flight per day--no cancellation the day before.
Just a normal full flight--with the F cabin being A0 from the time I booked.
Precisely. And, even if IRROPS had happened, it would be irrelevant here. It was F2, with at least two people (vail and mrs. vail) on the list when the grandson did OLCI. Now, unless more seats were being held (and this does happen for Y oversell cases), then there were just those 2 seats, and at least 2 on the upgrade list, waiting, when the LFBU was offered. At that point, it would already have been impossible to clear the upgrade list.

vail - did you happen to look at the seat map as well as the inventory? Within 24 hours, the seat map is typically a more accurate predictor of the number of actual open seats than the inventory. It would be interesting to correlate that as well.

Cheers.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 4:43 pm
  #236  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by brp
Precisely. And, even if IRROPS had happened, it would be irrelevant here. It was F2, with at least two people (vail and mrs. vail) on the list when the grandson did OLCI. Now, unless more seats were being held (and this does happen for Y oversell cases), then there were just those 2 seats, and at least 2 on the upgrade list, waiting, when the LFBU was offered. At that point, it would already have been impossible to clear the upgrade list.

vail - did you happen to look at the seat map as well as the inventory? Within 24 hours, the seat map is typically a more accurate predictor of the number of actual open seats than the inventory. It would be interesting to correlate that as well.

Cheers.
I always look at the seat map on EF--however I do not remember in this particular case if there were just 2 seats showing as not selected or others.
For some reason out of EGE there are people that do not OLCI or choose seats.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 8:11 pm
  #237  
 
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Originally Posted by beerup
Despite all the discussion and speculation in this thread and others, AFAIK, there has not been a single veritable instance reported on FT of an elite missing an upgrade when an LFBU had been sold on that flight. Maybe the OP of this thread came close, but unless he comes back and claims otherwise, the evidence suggests that he was upgraded (and no LFBUs were sold).
Originally Posted by vail
That is incorrect.
Perhaps I was not clear.
My wife and I--both elites-- were on the same record and we OLCI and were put on waitlist.
My grandson on a different record OLCI and was asked to upgrade--not an elite--and received the upgrade.
At the gate there were at least 10 people on the upgrade list--and 2 empty seats--which neither my wife nor I received.
So no matter what you think--AA is upgrading non elites for the revenue.
Sorry, I missed that one. Yes, I agree that you make a convincing case that a LFBU was sold on a flight where an elite was denied an upgrade.


Originally Posted by vail
we booked 3 months in advance.
At 100 hours it was F5
At 24 hours it was F3

Aftter I OLCI my grandson it was F2.
I asked to be placed on the upgrade list.
I did not clear.
In the very-best-case scenario vail and mrs. vail were the only two elites on the upgrade list when LFBUs were offered and AA stopped offering them when vail III purchased one. Then, subsequently several others
joined the upgrade list and the remaining seats were taken by walk-up tickets or IRROPS. Of course, that scenario seems highly unlikely and even if it were true, it shows that sale of LFBUs can cut it very close.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 8:30 pm
  #238  
 
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Originally Posted by beerup
Of course, that scenario seems highly unlikely and even if it were true, it shows that sale of LFBUs can cut it very close.
Highly unlikely to happen to any one specific person, perhaps. But integrated over all FTers it's pretty much inevitable.
Science Goy is offline  
Old Aug 22, 2012, 10:32 pm
  #239  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
This is indeed of significant concern. Please keep us informed about the status of your inquiry.


We already have proof that a substantial portion of our previously Q-blocked seats on each flight are being coded differently and sold for cash prior to date of departure. Now, it looks like potential e-upgrade inventory is being sold as well.
And the fact that the EXP desk 'can't' "push through" upgrades anymore is suspect.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 10:47 pm
  #240  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by mach92
If AA is going the way of UA on upgrades, no reason to stay loyal IMHO. I was about to purchase a ticket (to reqal for EXP) back to Dallas last night on AA from Singapore. I will hold off until I hear what's going on
And to think that AA was trolling around trying to get all UA 1K customers. They are surely going to be pissed; those who were matched to EXP...
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