mvoight

AA's stated policy is they WILL NOT do this.
This is definitely a big devaluation of elite status, if it is true
I am anxious to hear AA's response to the situation. described by the OP.

aa213bb

Just checking back in and this is more grave than I first thought, now that it seems we've confirmation.

My first hope is that the OP does, in fact, get upgraded, and my next (though equal) hope is that the EXP desk/CR has a candid conversation laying out the reasons this has happened with OP.

UNITED959

I'm very curious to hear what AA says, since it's one of the main reasons I left UA for AA.

ESpen36

Maybe AA will decide to start opening up these LFBUs to ALL passengers, including elites, at the point of check-in. EXPs will have to decide whether the flight is important enough to merit $90 to guarantee the upgrade at the moment of check-in, or whether they will be willing to take their chances later on for a free e-upgrade. It basically makes the e-upgrade windows (24/48/100) irrelevant. But it would generate some cash.

Note that some variation of this kind of thing can happen when departing overseas stations with regard to mileage+copay vs. eVIP upgrades at the airport. We have plenty of anecdotal evidence (and I have had quite a few personal situations) of being on the eVIP list and being approached by AA agents and offered to clear the list immediately if willing to switch to mileage+copay, OR take our chances at the gate for the eVIP.

Ultimately....the airline needs cold, hard cash. But if this thread is indeed evidentiating a policy shift, it should have been communicated to AA elites. Granted, there is no requirement to do so per AAdvantage TOS, and the LFBUs technically are not an AAdvantage product. But still, it would have been nice to know.

oopsz

Eep. Disappointing if true but I hope it's just a system glitch.

Maybe they tweaked the LFBU system to offer upgrades in an oversell situation to avoid VDB/IDB compensation and the code protecting elite upgrades before LFBU was accidentally affected.

lobo411

I can't speak to the technicalities of whether they had to communicate it to elites, but from a contractual standpoint wouldn't they be obligated to? IE, when an elite buys a sticker, he does so based on a reasonable assessment of the value of that sticker based on AA's stated policies. A $30 sticker in a world where LFBU does not exist is more valuable than a $30 sticker in a world where LFBU does exist.

It would be no different than a restaurant selling a voucher for a $30 dinner, but not telling anyone that you can only use the voucher when there are no cash customers in line.

JMN57

I understand your reasoning but I don't think it holds true. Never did AA commit to a fixed pricing policy. They just said that if there were seats in F left over, you had status and enough stickers, you could get in line to upgrade and, based on some criteria, you may or may not get upgraded.

All AA is doing is manipulating demand through pricing. They've done that forever. Look at all the YUP and Special First fares which have been popping up. They stimulate demand for F and fill the cabin so there are less upgrade opportunities available. Many (not all) FF cheer those fares. I know I do as they are not that much greater than a cheap Y fare plus stickers so, as a PLAT, they're basically the cost of an upgrade for me anyhow and there is no upgrade agita to deal with.

Now, they are throwing in a wrinkle with last minute offers to upgrade and an ugly (and in my belief stupid) wrinkle to boot. Telling loyal customers that random customers get first shot at upgrades in insulting.

And if, in fact, they are doing it and telling us to our faces that they are not, that is beyond insulting. It's unethical and the kind of practice that can ruin a brand. I may not like AA's words but properly presented I accept them and then make my decisions about who and how to fly. Present me with false and misleading information and one essentially erases trust which will quickly send me looking for alternatives.

Often1

Important for AA to come clean here. Nothing wrong with selling seats before giving them away. But, it should be clear that this is what happens.

ESpen36

Nope. In fact, AA is specifically NOT obligated to do so.

It's right there in black in white in the AAdvantage Terms & Conditions.

relevant excerpts below:

ESpen36

That is VERY VERY TRUE. I'm one who cheers those fares! (How about that $1800 round trip all-included I fare to LHR offered in May/June!!!) In the past year, we have seen the proliferation of "good deal" premium fares to what I consider to be an unprecedented extent. Thus far in 2012, I have bought a whole bunch of international I/D-class fares that I never would have bought previously, on routes I have flown every year for decades. (In fact, I have NEVER bought an I or D fare until this year.) Until this year, I always bought cheap Economy fares and did mileage upgrades (or more recently, mileage+copay) on flights where I absolutely needed to be upgraded. But with these cheap I fares, it's exactly as you say--they are cheap enough that the difference in fare equals out to about the same or even less than the cost of the copay plus the value of the mileage.

Here's an example: a typical North American upgrade is 15k miles plus $50-75. That's 30k + $150 roundtrip. Miles are worth $0.02/mile, so the whole thing is valued at $600+$150 = $750. If the total difference in price between the cheapest available Economy fare and the "Special Business" or "Instant Upgrade" fare is less than $750, it absolutely makes sense to take the I/YUP/KUP fare instead of rolling the dice on the mileage+copay upgrade! (sometimes, the difference in fare is substantially less...a couple of hundred even!)

The same holds true for the e-upgrades, but that doesn't apply to me because I'm EXP so my e-upgrades are complimentary on all fares.


Ultimately, by doing what I sketched out above:
a) more cash for AA
b) I earn COS bonus which helps my RDM count
c) I can eVIP to A class on 3-class routes
d) more RDMs stay in my account to redeem for International longhaul F

Everybody wins! (except those who were hoping to e-upgrade)

envgeo

Makes total sense. Lets take our EXPs (which probably average $25k+ per year in spend with AA) and really piss them off so we can make $90 from some shmoe which spends $1-2k per year with AA.

vail

Even worse--I was on the upgrade list and a family member checked in online and was offered the upgrade and paid and received it.
Mine never cleared.
He has no status--I have over 7mm miles.

AA has made a deliberate decision to sell upgrades to whoever will purchase them.

Science Goy

You're forgetting that they're not angering all the EXPs, but rather the 0.1% that are savvy enough to know the detailed workings the program (by reading this or other boards). That's a contingent AA can easily afford to piss off. Besides, where are they (we) gonna go?

DWFI

This is really disturbing. I've stopped booking UA altogether and have done nothing but AA domestically for the last 6 months at whatever price point.
What do I get in return? UAdbaCO again.
I'll just have to move to WN.

wesmanz

That's pretty much what would have happened here, he'd have been sitting up front and me back in Y by myself. That would have sucked, especially after mentioning that I would take him into the AC when I got to the airport but that I'd likely be getting upgraded but at least I got him a decent seat since I linked our PNR's. I'm glad I made the command decision to deny the upgrade offer for him

--wes