RealHJ

I searched and didn't find anything on this, thus posting... please pardon if this is already covered elsewhere, and direct me to there if so.

From recent experience it seems that AA is doing some massive scale blocking of awards of other OW airlines. Almost 3/4s of the time when I can find awards on ba.com, qantas.com.au, etc. (good searches for OW awards), AA says that they don't have it, and keep insisting that the space that they get is different from the other OW airlines. I don't mean I am looking for BA flights on ba.com, or Qantas flights on qantas.com. For example, almost all AY flights I can find on ba.com and qantas.com.au (show on both), AA always claim they have nothing available, though there are plenty of seats as shown on BA. Not quite as bad, but the same for CX flights as well. Only for JL flights I haven't (yet) run into AA blocking it..

Anyone have any insight on this? Is it just that AA is blocking other OW airline awards? If so, any known (general, rough) algorithm for that (e.g. they block last X seats available per class/airline) known? Or is it really as they claim (which I doubt) that other OW airlines release separate inventory to each other OW airline (vs. just two sets of inventories of award space: one internal and one to other OW/partner airlines, as I believe is usually the case), and that what AA gets is always less than what BA, Qantas, and other OW airlines get from others?

Any insight on this would be much appreciated.

Austinrunner

There is no blocking going on. There are occasional technical problems between airlines (such as the QF website showing CX seats as available when they're not). In addition, AA agents frequently don't know what they're doing. Always remember the "hang up and call again" mantra.

RealHJ

Aha, got it. That's what I was thinking may be the case, so I thought I'd ask. I guess that "hang up and call again" is true for all airlines..

QF site I know is not reliable, so I don't count on that, it's just good for faster searches, but BA has been always correct real time, so I use that to re-confirm what QF showed (as it's a lot slower, but I always use that to re-confirm availability).

One other question: is AA really not able to book AY flights that are "operated by Flybe"? (For both award & revenue, these AY flights are only marketed and available as AY, they are NOT Flybe marketed or sold anywhere anyhow, they are exclusively AY.) BA I know for a fact does not do those (they have also so confirmed). QF shows them, however, when available. But AA always say that "their rules do not permit them to book AY flights not operated by AY." One agent was willing to put it in Y (fare) class to reaccommodate. Next one said her supervisor and supervisor's manager said no, will not do so, that need to buy that separate (though that was as part of aware) now when flights changed to account for the AA cancellation of ORD-HEL (AA now will no longer rebook the connection out of HEL, though it's available as per QF as award - isn't that breach of contract, refusing to re-book passenger through to destination, esp. when OW flights to there are operated jus fine, and were booked so initially?).

Austinrunner

Definitely true for AA. Flyertalk members report every single day that the angels don't do what they're supposed to be trained to do. But if they were perfect, what use would this forum be?

rrgg

In general codeshares cannot be booked as an award.

Also I'm surprised the QF award tool is being called inaccurate. I've had good luck with it.

Dave Noble

It's not that good especially if you are looking as a bronze member

When it comes to CX, it can think that there is availability when there isn't

For Qantas, if it shows availability, then will be fine .... however.... QF blocks some award seats for those with status internally so there can be availability in (for example) in P class ( as would be found using expert flyer ) and so could be booked through AA whilst QF is saying no availability to a QF bronze member

tt7

Just another point of reference. I just called to set up an F award ticket MEL-LHR for October. Both QF and EF showed availability on QF9 so I pointed the agent to that specific flight on a specific day. EXP desk agent insisted it was not available. (Are you looking for P? Try spliting it in SIN etc. etc.). Still insisted it was not available. Called back 5 minutes later (actually called the Aadvantage number but got routed to the EXP desk). Different agent had no problem at all seeing the seat, set it up (including seat assignment and QF record locator) in 45 seconds .....

RealHJ

This is great to know. So it really is the agents then...or rather, their training and/or their systems and/or how they search. So having to do "rinse and repeat" then really is true here, unfortunately..

(I know at DL for KE award flights agents can not use their manual 'official' published way to search - that will almost always show nothing, but there are 'unofficial' ways of doing it that actually work and will yield results. Seems to be similar here at AA perhaps..)

brenc3

If you're looking for tickets outside of the US, one of the biggest limitations is finding AAgents (even EXP) who are geographically challenged - I've had more than one AAgent tell me that the only way to get from NRT to LHR on OW is via the US (). Having an agent who has more than basic familiarity with several OW carriers' route networks will open up lots more possibilities.

Otherwise, there's some level of randomness to availability. One day you could find no availability on some popular route like LAX-NRT, LAX-HKG, NRT-SYD, etc. for +/- 2 weeks, and then the next day it's wide open. It's too random for me to think there's some revenue management brain behind it. The key is to call back several days over the course of the week - it's annoying, but you can hope that others who want the same award don't have the patience.

As for QF, EF shows award availability there. I don't have extensive experience, but it hasn't steered me wrong yet.

RealHJ

Wouldn't the solution to that be to simply have done all the searching in advance and feed to the agents the exact flights you want by date/airine/flight #/departure time, which you have also verified are available? And if that doesn't work out, have Plan B and Plan C also prepared. At least, that is what I do. Spend an hour or a few before calling to find the best routing that is available (and is valid routing), and alternate Plan B and Plan C (if not also D and E..) - and have it all written down in a few pages of note files (word or excel), and then just spoon-feed it to the agent.

Agents (at all airlines) seem to really like it and ask me to "just tell me exactly what you want" once I start doing so, not even thinking that they can (and may be should?) do some searching as well. And indeed, most agents often have no idea what half the airport codes are I give them (I don't bother with the city names, that often results in them entering some incorrect airport code). I've had agents not know what is KIX, say that NGO is Nagano (it's Nagoya), have no idea what is TSA (Taipei Songshan), and so on. But really they don't even need to know the city name, just the airport code, and I just keep it that way... thinking that the airline agents are just "remote hands" to do what the airline won't let me do myself directly, with me doing the thinking for them.


But on another topic, anyone know are there different ways for AAgents to search for flights in their systems, so that is why some find CX, AY, etc. availability when BA, QF, JL, etc. show it available, while others don't and insist that AA has lesser availability than BA, QF, JL, etc. (other OW airlines)? There must be some different ways that they are doing the same search, I'd think, to explain the fact that while some find it and others don't. And if so, anyone know what is the 'correct' way to do it (that will find all availability) and how to tell that to agents to search 'that way'?

JDiver

Geographically challenged indeed. My friends were coming to join us at MRY from ADL on C award tickets we'd booked, but the agent could not see the flights to get them back from LAX - "I'm sorry sir, but there is absolutely nothing available!" or the like. I said "I am seeing award availability on QF (whatever) LAX-BNE and onward to ADL". Her response was, after a catch of her breath, "Oh, BRISSBAYNE!"

Better than the AT&T international operator some years ago I had asked to find a number for my friends <name omitted> "in Bonnet Bay, near Sydney" - at which I got "I'm sorry sir, but I am sure there are many Cindys living in Australia, and I'll nee d more than that." :double gasp:

Though some AA agents are expert and helpful, you more often need to lead AAgents by the hand.

Austinrunner

That's similar to the advice I've given in post #1 of the oneworld awards sticky.

dayone

I know that is a popular opinion and if it works for you, more power to you.

I guess that I have just been lucky. In almost all my award shopping, I've had good experiences being clear and collaborative. I assume competence and rarely have been disappointed. Sometimes, the agent is more creative than the hand leader.

tt7

Just another point of reference. I had put the above reservation on hold. Just called in to ticket it. Agent says "Oh dear, never seen that before, that's a problem.." My heart sank. A "communication problem" with the server. Turned out she was trying to "re-price" an award ticket. "Oh, it's an award ticket! We're still getting used to that ...."

Moral of the story. When you know QF award space is availabe and the AA agent tells you it isn't, don't believe them. AA - would you please get your act together and/or get your agents trained properly?

p.s. I should add - this isn't entirely AA's fault. Once upon a time, the oneworld airlines were working on aligning all their fare codes. For some bizarre reason, QF then decided a couple of years ago to change F awards from Z to P, thus abandoning any attempt at alignment and simply causing confusion.

tt7

... and another point of reference. Called today for an F award on QF 10 LHR-MEL for a specific day in November that QF said was available. EXP agent insisted that it was not available and that QF availability did not mean AA availability. Sorry, you're wrong on both counts - please try again. You are looking for the correct inventory, aren't you? Puts me on hold. Comes back - yes, you're right, it's available. We're still getting used to that change ....

Don't take no for an answer .....