formeraa

There is a new world order in the airline industry:

1. Strong GLOBAL hubs with strong GLOBAL alliances. JFK-BUD made sense with a partner hub there; now, not so much.

2. Long, thin INTERNATIONAL routes. AA flies many of these out of MIA-South America; DL flies them from JFK-Europe. UA flies many of them intra-Asia now. Just because DL flies from JFK-NCE doesn't mean that there is enough traffic for AA to add another frequency. We already had that craziness in the mid to late 80's (with much, much cheaper oil) with tag-ends out of JFK to tertiary cities like Nantes and Mulhouse -- it got pretty ridiculous.

3. Elimination of routes that DON'T make sense -- AA's cornerstone strategy, DL's pulldown of MEM and CVG, and, once the merger is complete, we will see route rationalization at UA/CO as well. Although it seems sad because we used that route 5 years ago and had a great time in XYZ, it doesn't mean that it makes sense in $100/barrel oil and global alliances.

By the way, I do believe that we will see a MIA-CPT/JNB after the bankruptcy is completed.

Upgraded!

Agree wholeheartedly. There are only two circumstances in which this type of incursion makes sense:

1. There are lucrative corporate contracts largely supporting a route (no better example than RDU-LHR) and winning the contract away from a competitor (prior to launching the route) means that your displacing of that competitor is all but assured.

2. It makes more sense based on frequent flyer base or network for one carrier vs. another to fly a route and the market will naturally shift business from the existing to the entering carrier. In my opinion, DFW-ICN could be one such example for AA (assuming Samsung doesn't insist on a Korean carrier only) since the Samsung employees in TX probably largely use AA for domestic travel.

I doubt either of these conditions are met for most of DL's once per day/four-five/week JFK-Europe routes.

Ambraciot

That scenario explains AA pushing DL off JFK-BUD a year after Malev joined oneworld, is it reasonable to suspect DL will relaunch the route now that AA has withdrawn. I think the AA withdrawal is an over reaction since DL was able to operate the route for years without a local partner.

tom911

I was through Tegel again in November and December and, to me, it always looks like Air Berlin could use more space there. The hallways near their gates always look packed. Is there a capacity issue there that they have not been able to ramp up flights at certain times of day?

gegarrenton

I don't what to say other than you are way off. They are not going for the business traveler, or if they are, they are doing an exceedingly poor job at it. Comparing their gains vs. AA is like comparing Mac inroads into the PC market, yeah it may be happening, but it's still 90% in favor of PC's. This shows through in all facets of their business, from the fact DL saw traffic reduction this year, while AA saw an increase during these primarily business focused months.

The only corporate competitors right now are UA and AA. Unfortunately UA is winning at the moment, hopefully that changes. But one thing is certain, DL is an outlier in the business market and thrives on the middle America leisure traveler.

gegarrenton

Ha, now that actually made me laugh!

gegarrenton

It makes perfect sense. It makes every Tom, Dick and Harry feel special because they took 5 flights this year and got the AMEX. Heavy business travelers do not want this sort of thing diluting their pool.

NW was THE business carrier to Asia. I am referencing a period where every airline didn't go everywhere( I know, blasphemy). NW was business heavy to the extreme.

KtownTraveler

You bet. I still want to say Northwest Orient instead of merely Northwest. And Orient was removed from the logo over 25 years ago.

Upgraded!

DL's appeal to business travelers is through corporate contracts, not marketing to individuals who fly for business. Those entering the contracts care about price, not how diluted their employees' status is and for those entering into large agreements for corporate rates on F/J travel the status matters a lot less (no need for upgrades).

And it's not really fair to bring in NW's network of yesteryear; only that part of the network which differentiated NW at the time of the merger would be relevant to making your original point.

jerroranda

I feel AA missed out DFW-ICN since now KE have increased frequency from DFW to 5x a week. A DFW-NRT-ICN route would made sense esp with all the military around the DFW area.

gegarrenton

No, that would be appealing to businesses, not business travelers. Most corporations have two or three preferred carriers, and the traveler will select the one he likes best, price obviously being one of the constraints.

onlybeef42

That would make me happy

sdsearch

Why do you assume that? The parts of Samsung that's in the Dallas area are in Richardson and Dallas proper, much closer to DAL than to DFW. And Austin is linked to DAL just as well as to DFW.

Are you forgetting that there are two airlines that hub in the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area, and the other ones hubs at DAL which is much more convenient for some people in Dallas proper or east of it than DFW?

...

But, on the other hand, who is this:

AMR Samsung Telecomms
240 Dividend Drive, Coppell, TX
(469) 322-6000

(I found them when searching Samsung on Google Maps without being more specific about locaiton. And it's right next to DFW.)

Does AMR already have a relationship with Samsung???

aamilesslave

That's hardly a fair comparison of DAL vs AA. I live much closer to DAL but fly exclusively on AA in part because there aren't many destinations I can fly to non-stop out of Love. That will change a bit in the coming years when the Wright Amendment goes away, but Love's limited gates will keep that to a miminum.

Upgraded!

First of all, with elite status I'd find AA worth the extra drive over flying WN out of DAL. Second of all, even if most of the employees currently use WN out of DAL for domestic travel, there's no alliance with KE and the opportunity to consolidate all travel would probably be tempting for both the company and its employees.