mvoight

Terrorists. maybe. There are a lot of people in that part of the world who would like to attack a plane with the word "American" on it.

paseom2

Seems like TLV is pretty well served. Also, pretty sizable start-up costs with the TWA obligations and not a OneWorld destination, which seems to be the name of the game recently. I don't have a lot of confidence in AA management, but if I do think they would be flying the route if they really could make "enormous" profit.

GUWonder

Not a surprise, including for reasons related to that mentioned in the "expansion" thread rather recently.

Unlikely to be the issue but imagination is everyone's right.

truthknown

Of course the argument works great in our current position. Once out of bankruptcy, and our costs reduced, the business cases for many routes become very viable. Do not count out any routes yet. As we take on our new fleet, expect to see many changes to the network.

As for the new LHR route, it is probably one of the best options we had for the 763 right now, leveraging our current assets to deploy the aircraft on a route that will have many revenue advantages, especially with our joint venture. It is far from simple to start a new route to a city we do not currently serve. It is also way to easy to say that we should do X, Y, and Z routes without knowing all of the factors involved. Given more time, options can be fully accessed as to where a 763 would be better served in our European network and an implementation plan can be executed.

Meanwhile, we have one little issue to resolve. It's called chapter 11... Things you see may not look so great now, but there is very bright future ahead!

crazyMRer

AA metal to Europe excluding LHR:
JFK-CDG 2x
JFK-MAN 1x
JFK-BRU 1x
JFK-ZRH 1x
JFK-MXP 1x
JFK-FCO 1x
JFK-BCN 1x
JFK-MAD 1x
ORD-HEL 1x
ORD-DUB 1x
ORD-MAN 1x
ORD-CDG 1x
ORD-FCO 1x
DFW-FRA 1x
DFW-CDG 1x
DFW-MAD 1x
MIA-CDG 1x
MIA-MAD 1x
BOS-CDG 1x

FWAAA

Funny to read the 'No More LHR" posts here.

In the early '80s, when the domestic trunk airlines won the freedom to fly overseas (challenging the duopoly held by TWA and Pan Am), AA tried flying to a few second-tier European cities until it bought the rights to LHR from TWA. Over the next 20 years, AA expanded its service to London and trimmed its offerings to secondary cities.

DL acquired the European operations from Pan Am; CO and US built up substantial schedules to Europe. Wonder why those airlines did that?

Because they couldn't fly to Heathrow like AA and UA. And once AA could fly to Heathrow, it de-emphasized those other European cities.

For all of London's faults, it's by far the most popular business destination in Europe. Now that BA and AA have finally achieved their ATI, it's not just "stupid AA management" that is guiding these decisions - it's BA as well. If more money could be made by flying to some secondary cities instead of LHR, then BA and AA would do that and share those outsized profits instead. The fact that LHR gets another flight from DFW tells me that's where AA and BA think money can best be made.

AA flies an amazing number of premium seats to London every day. So many that there are frequently leftovers available for upgrades. If the price of easy transatlantic upgrades is having to connect in London - I'll gladly pay that price.

Over at DL, there are lots of one-per-day flights to secondary cities but unfortunately, DL's price for upgrading is an M fare or better.

All is not lost, however. AA flies to MAD and BCN and MXP and FCO and a few other fun places in addition to London. Perhaps with lower costs in the future, AA will fly to more of these cities.

ihavebeenseen

I wish they would have made this new DFW-LHR flight a Day flight to LHR. I love those out of ORD,JFK and BOS.

makfan

Thank you, FWAAA. I don't expect anything earth-shattering until the chapter 11 is resolved. I agree with those who opine that LHR is a pain for connections, but I have always cleared my eVIPs through LHR one way or another.

Getting ready for a RT SFO-LAX-LHR next week in C (J).

Upgraded!

However, as has been stated here MANY times: just because a flight is profitable doesn't mean that there are not more profitable uses of the aircraft out there. Just filling the hold of a 777 on SDQ could be profitable; $1,000 ahead is a profit, but it's nothing compared to the many multiples of that AA can make by flying a plane full of pax MIA-GRU.

Xero

I think AA will go after anything profitable at this point. AA is losing money, meaning the average route is unprofitable. So I doubt they would move a plane from something that's marginally profitable to something more profitable.

saltytheseagull

Add me to the list hoping for a new Europe non-LHR route. AMS would be nice, but is doubtful. I will also don the BER rose colored glasses. Or how about something else in the Ruhr Valley?

Upgraded!

Your logic is faulty; AA has substantial overhead not attributable to any particular flight or route. The revenues from each flight could be greater than the direct costs of that flight (crew, fuel, ground staff specific to the flight) but still not cover the costs accrued by AA that are spread over all flights (or large groups of flights). A D check on a 763 is expensive but cannot be assigned to any one flight...

mmjaysee

Good to hear... can't wait to hear the post-BK plans and expansion news. ^

bubba198

Originally Posted by FWAAA All is not lost, however. AA flies to MAD and BCN and MXP and FCO and a few other fun places in addition to London. Perhaps with lower costs in the future, AA will fly to more of these cities.[/QUOTE]

I hope so. It is sad to see Delhi and Budapest go. Over the past 5 years well over half my miles have been international. That will go to 80% or 90% in the near future.

IMHO don't need more flights to London, need more connections through MAD and AA flights to good places.

Shopping. Will fly BA 1st class to JBurg this summer and probably Emirates to Delhi in the fall.

The continuing lament of American companies is that they can't make money where others step in and seem to do fine ( or new american companies like Jet Blue come in and dominate old strongholds). So they look for places to cut back to become profitable.

Reality is reality. Hope AAL can create something positive post banktruptcy.

berlinflyer83

Well, OW did not pick AB solely for the benefit of AA. They wanted another carrier in Europe, and it's nice to have another option that isn't *A. Who else would they have picked?

Connections from Berlin aren't bad at all. Here's the direct flights from TXL today, and AB will add routes once BER opens.

Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
Alicante, Spain
Antalya, Turkey
Bangkok, Thailand
Barcelona, Spain
Bari, Italy
Basle, Switzerland
Catania, Italy
Cologne, Germany
Copenhagen, Denmark
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Düsseldorf, Germany
Enfidha, Tunisia
Frankfurt, Germany
Funchal, Portugal
Gothenburg, Sweden
Graz, Austria
Helsinki, Finland
Hurghada, Egypt
Innsbruck, Austria
Karlsruhe, Germany
Kraków, Poland
Lanzarote, Spain
Linz, Austria
Luxor, Egypt
Malaga, Spain
Miami, FL
Milan, Italy
Moscow, Russia
Munich, Germany
Münster, Germany
New York, NY
Nuernberg, Germany
Olbia, Italy
Oslo, Norway
Palma, Spain
Palmas de Gran Canaria, Spain
Phuket, Thailand
Puerto del Rosario, Spain
Punta Cana, Dominican Republic
Rome, Italy
Saarbrücken, Germany
Saint Petersburg, Russia
Salzburg, Austria
Santa Cruz de La Palma, Spain
Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt
Stockholm, Sweden
Stuttgart, Germany
Tel Aviv, Israel
Tenerife South Airport (TFS), Spain
Varadero, Cuba
Venice, Italy
Verona, Italy
Vienna, Austria
Zurich, Switzerland