2millionquest

This, of course, is true; but that ghastly survey puts any case the FAs might have in a very unfavorable light.

denCSA

I say we have an entrepreneurial FTer create a new website dedicated to uploading images of all the FAs we encounter sitting in their jumpseats near 1L reading US Weekly. How's THAT for a survey!

I mean, I have no problem with FAs taking a break so long as it does not compromise service standards. We all take breaks at work (or should anyways). But this grievance is a joke and if the AFA is going to create some ridiculous survey to find out how much extra 'work' is involved, they should really have the other side of the situation publicized much in the same way.

I feel bad for the FAs that actually do want to make a difference and realize the value in improving a product to the standards of a true international carrier.

DL2SXM

coming from AA, this doesnt suprise me one bit.

god forbid you take an extra 20 minutes of chat time away from the AA FA's to make the customer happy, and you get the union crying like little school girls. doesn't surprise me. Way to go.

psyflyer

Do FA's normally have information on what fare bucket you booked under? (i.e. if you are using an award/upgrade?) I have seen the manifest a few times and in one instance on QF IIRC it clearly showed your OW status and your fare bucket.

Wilbur

+1

This sort of thing is exactly why I fly CX across the pond and not AA.

Is there no one in the union who can comprehend this?

SJOGuy

Well, I'm going to go against the grain here.

I am fully capable of making up a bed myself. This isn't a hotel. This isn't even a real bed. Just hand me the packaged duvet, sheets and pillow and I can lay them out myself. I've done it before and I can do it again. I do not expect the FA to be a chambermaid.

sukn

I'm sure the AA FAs will have absolutely no problem letting you make your own bed. If you let them, they may even whine to you about the other passengers in F who expect the FAs to do their job according to company policies and industry standards.

grumpymonkey

The knee-jerk anti-union sentiments expressed on FlyerTalk are really incredible, to me.

There are good unions. There are bad unions. There are unions that operate to secure sound wages, reasonable hours and safe working conditions for their members. And there are unions that operate solely for the benefit of their elected officers.

I'm sorry that there are so many people on this board who are more than willing to trash the FA's union, without any actual knowledge of the underlying circumstances of this grievance, the bargaining history that led to it, or any other actual facts.

I have the same reaction to this thread that I have to passengers who trot their status out in a DYKWIA manner. You're a customer of an airline. You might reward that airline with your loyalty, but there are people who work for that airline who deserve to be treated and compensated fairly at work. If their employer made a deal with them, that's the deal. If you don't like the way the airline is running its business, or you don't like the product that they're giving you, you can take your business elsewhere. I can promise you that Arpey has more to do with the quality of your experience as a customer than any of the unions that represent AA employees do.

sukn

That's right, most of us have never flown AA before. That's right, most of us have not spent substantive amount of flight time on AA planes. That's right, most of us don't have enough flying experience on a variety of airlines to make a fair assessment of AA's premium product. That's right, most of us are completely unaware of AA's recent labor history despite having threads dedicated to it on FT and having AA FAs regularly posting on the subject.

Honestly, in accusing many of us having a knee-jerk reaction, you yourself have had a knee-jerk reaction on the topic and the participants in this thread.

elitetraveler

Allocating blame between parties is always tricky. I believe in the FAs own posting they said they were not sure or not if the new service violated the agreement. They said more research was needed.

I am not sure what this has to do with DYKWIAs. This is in fact has to do with the current contract situation.

lobo411

Couldn't have said it better myself, even if I was willing to invest much time in tilting at the anti-union windmill here.

AAerSTL

This really is a new low for the APFA. They pulled the same nonsense when AA announced the pillows sales in February 2010 which began in May 2010 and have since been discontinued. It's unfortunate of the APFA for resisting this new service and amenity particularly since premium customers bring revenue that could fund their contact negotiation demands.

Personally, I think its revealing that our resident FAs, AAFA, skylady , and sluggoaafa, haven't posted in this thread (yet). They usually are quick to defend, explain, or rationalize decisions from APFA or other commentary regarding FA behavior and service (or lack thereof). Perhaps it's because they primarily or elusively fly domestic trips that will not offer this service. While I certainly don't expect them (or any other poster) to actively monitor or post on FT threads it's just interesting that they have chosen not be party to this discussion. Again just my observation.

Even as a union critic (a quick review of my FT post history will validate this) I believe union FAs are capable of providing great service including those that offer turn-down service and pajamas such as BA, CX, and JL. With that said, it's not fair to paint all union FAs with the same brush. To me this is nothing more than an example of the fact that a) AA will never be able to offering a true International F product b) AA management and APFA do not have a relationship that is conducive of cooperation and promotes customer service, efficiency, or productivity. I don't think either of the above posts will come as a shocker to anyone reading this.

Posters in this thread have overwhelmingly shown their distaste for the APFA and the service offered by AA FAs on long haul international flights. Some AA FAs need a real attitude adjustment and reconsideration of their profession if they expect revenue customers to move so they have a window seat to rest either while on-duty or during scheduled rest periods. Finally, I just emailed my Dad and told him to insist the FAs prepare his bed on his JFK-LHR flight next week in F. AA is marketing this product to passengers and much like the on-board pillow and Heathrow Express tickets they should be offered to customers accordingly.

UALpremier

+1 Specifically, this internal push does nothing to further AMR's financial position. The concept of competition seems to be lost on the APFA regarding this specific move on their part. Ultimately, an airline is a service industry, this also seems to be lost on them.

The facts are AMR is bleeding cash, and this is in large part because of labor expenses relative to its competitors. Rather than bicker about duvets and PJs for premium passangers, the APFA would probably benefit more from presenting some productivity increasing options. If not, a BK judge is likely to do that for them.

ffdom

....."I'm sorry that there are so many people on this board who are more than willing to trash the FA's union, without any actual knowledge of the underlying circumstances of this grievance, the bargaining history that led to it, or any other actual facts.

I have the same reaction to this thread that I have to passengers who trot their status out in a DYKWIA manner. You're a customer of an airline. You might reward that airline with your loyalty, but there are people who work for that airline who deserve to be treated and compensated fairly at work."

...



Oy this is not, I'm afraid a valid argument. I would never "trot [my] status in a DYKWIA status". I previously worked for a labor union and completely get that employees should be treated fairly. I go out of my way to thank attentive flight attendants. Its just the right thing to do.

But it's FAs job to be service-oriented and I've flown so many other airlines [with an employer/client paying thousands of dollars for those flights in paid F or paid J] to know that a few minutes on a turn-down service does not in any way, ANY way, possibly under ANY scenario constitute excessive workload. Indeed suggesting such a thing suggests a complete disregard for the needs of passengers and the competitive environment. Customers have a choice - for LAX-DEL I can fly CO, CX, SQ, BA and many others. I **want** to choose AA. But this kind of debate over a few minutes per passenger of effort, makes me just want to take my business elsewhere.

The sad thing was that my DEL-ORD flight where the FAs sleep needs were paramount over the needs of passengers was my 2MM flight on AA. (Once she woke up, the purser at the end of flight did shake my hand when I told her that, as I was exiting the plane, it was my 2MM flight.) I had an AA CC just briefly. so almost all those miles (I would guess 1.8M) were done thru AA or OW paid premium travel.

I switched from UA (where I have 799k BIS miles) to enjoy AA for the last 8 years. I feel real affinity for AA and get a warm fuzzy feel when on board, really. But having to even debate whether giving me a mattress pad and PJs is a reasonable imposition on FAs is just ridiculous. This isn't about employee rights or the demands of a (completely crappy) management, its about basic customer service and trying to have a competitive product.

JDiver

Attributions of "knee-jerk" anything, DYKWIA attitudes etc. are verging into ad hominem. If this continues, posts will be deleted and/or the thread will be closed. Not a warning, just the facts. /Moderator

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