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-   -   AA policy or FAA policy that no electronics can be plugged in during take off? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage-pre-consolidation-usair/1161286-aa-policy-faa-policy-no-electronics-can-plugged-during-take-off.html)

uElliots Dec 17, 10 3:40 pm

AA policy or FAA policy that no electronics can be plugged in during take off?
 
that was a new one on me

I had my phone which was off, but plugged in to the new 738 power port

FA came by and said, that must be unplugged

I said its off just charging and the green power button light is on - meaning the power port-

she said, its policy that nothing can be plugged in during take off and landing

she made me physically unplug which of course I did

but I am just curious if that is AA or FAA policy?

cynicAAl Dec 17, 10 4:13 pm

if I need to evacuate a plane from an aborted takeoff, I'd rather not trip and get tangled in your power cords.

rjw242 Dec 17, 10 4:17 pm

FAA rules state personal electronic devices must be powered off during certain flight phases.

Phone chargers are personal electronic devices.

Ergo...

aamilesslave Dec 17, 10 4:20 pm


Originally Posted by rjw242 (Post 15471087)
FAA rules state personal electronic devices must be powered off during certain flight phases.

Phone chargers are personal electronic devices.

Ergo...

AA does not permit the use of any electronic device during taxi/takeoff/landing, but Southwest does allow use of noise cancelling headphones during this time. So unless it's an FAA rule 'cause it's an AA rule, the use of noise cancelling headphones is not an FAA rule.

FXEpilot77 Dec 17, 10 4:40 pm

Here's the actual law:


§ 121.306 Portable electronic devices.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Portable voice recorders;

(2) Hearing aids;

(3) Heart pacemakers;

(4) Electric shavers; or

(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.

(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.

It gives a fair amount of leeway to the airline (part 119 certificate holder is the airline)

Good thing they exempted pacemakers. Otherwise, "Sir! I need you to turn that off...sir? sir?"

Feel free to charge your shaver during taxi, takeoff and landing though.

RogerD408 Dec 17, 10 4:55 pm

Knee jerk reaction to new technology
 
This has been going on for decades. From the early days of PC's and even before, airlines weren't sure of the effect devices will have with onboard systems. Their answer was to ban their use altogether. Once you board an aircraft, you are pretty much at the crews mercy or risk being de-boarded and all the consequences there of.

Although I do carry a laptop and sometimes even make use of WiFi on board, I still like to get a few hours unplugged from the world and just relax. What I really dreading is when they allow cell calls in flight. It's bad enough in restaurants and movie theaters, but just imagine at 30K feet!

As to being AA or FAA policy, it is FAA regulations that you must follow FA instructions, so does it really make a difference? And you know if you ask the FA they will say it's FAA rules.

mvoight Dec 17, 10 6:59 pm


Originally Posted by FXEpilot77 (Post 15471212)
Here's the actual law:

It gives a fair amount of leeway to the airline (part 119 certificate holder is the airline)

Good thing they exempted pacemakers. Otherwise, "Sir! I need you to turn that off...sir? sir?"

Feel free to charge your shaver during taxi, takeoff and landing though.

I often here the FA tell people, "If it has an on/off switch, it must be turned off". So, on a future trip, I plan to take a Roku... and I will invite the FA to find the on/off switch

rjw242 Dec 17, 10 7:01 pm


Originally Posted by mvoight (Post 15471806)
I often here the FA tell people, "If it has an on/off switch, it must be turned off". So, on a future trip, I plan to take a Roku... and I will invite the FA to find the on/off switch

Or the abbreviated grammatical atrocity, "Personal electronics must be in the off position."

TWAL10114Ever Dec 17, 10 8:24 pm


Originally Posted by uElliots (Post 15470900)
that was a new one on me

I had my phone which was off, but plugged in to the new 738 power port

FA came by and said, that must be unplugged

I said its off just charging and the green power button light is on - meaning the power port-

she said, its policy that nothing can be plugged in during take off and landing

she made me physically unplug which of course I did

but I am just curious if that is AA or FAA policy?

Uhhhhhhh, I'd rather not have my legs tangled up in your power cords when I have to evacuate the aircraft.

WillTravel4Food Dec 17, 10 8:29 pm

Being where my job regularly addresses the FARs, I'd like to chime in here on a couple items:

1) FXEpilot77 states airlines are certified under Part 119. AA is an Air Operator certified under Part 121. All the majors are certified under this Part. Other airlines you might have a rare occasion to fly could be certified under any number of Parts. The other most common one is 135. Foreign Air Operators certified to operate in the U.S are under Part 129. Part 119 applies to all certified Air Operators and might be considered "general" rules that apply to all Ar Operators. Part 121 provides Air Operators authority to perform certain type of operations that travelers typically associate with a large airline. Too much detail to go into here.

2) FXEpilot77 accurately notes the applicable section of Part 121, which indicates the reason FAs ask you to shut off and unplug all electronics.

3) RogerD408 correctly states the requirement to comply with all FA instruction. See 121.580: Prohibition on interference with crewmembers, I'm having trouble finding the requirement to comply with FAs and will post later.

FXEpilot77 Dec 18, 10 9:03 am


Originally Posted by WillTravel4Food (Post 15472200)
]1) FXEpilot77 states airlines are certified under Part 119.

Actually what I said was that the reference to the part 119 certificate holder meant the airline. As you point out, they could be 121, 135, etc.

sica4 Dec 18, 10 9:10 am

Those of you who have seen a Kindle I'm sure are aware that when its off there is still a random image displayed on the screen (Kindle uses no electricity to display image, only to change an image). Right when they first were coming out saw an FA insisting a customer turn it off 'ALL THE WAY'. The electronics ban just drives me nuts.

It is against policy to turn on a wireless device in flight if the wireless function cannot be turned off, unless of course, they are selling wifi :rolleyes: in which case by all means power that thing up. I don't know how much of it is FAA vs. AA but passengers see how much of a farce it is and its just frustrating.

Danwriter Dec 18, 10 9:13 am


Originally Posted by cynicAAl (Post 15471076)
if I need to evacuate a plane from an aborted takeoff, I'd rather not trip and get tangled in your power cords.

This is the only answer needed.

brp Dec 18, 10 9:19 am


Originally Posted by sica4 (Post 15475099)
Those of you who have seen a Kindle I'm sure are aware that when its off there is still a random image displayed on the screen (Kindle uses no electricity to display image, only to change an image).

Let's be clear that this is not true. The power required to maintain the static image is likely very low, but power is expended. Definitely not enough to affect anything on the aircraft, to be sure, but it is non-zero :)

Cheers.

sluggoaafa Dec 18, 10 11:02 am


Originally Posted by uElliots (Post 15470900)
I had my phone which was off, but plugged in to the new 738 power port

FA came by and said, that must be unplugged


she said, its policy that nothing can be plugged in during take off and landing

she made me physically unplug which of course I did

but I am just curious if that is AA or FAA policy?

Per the Flight Attendant manual, Sign-In/Pre-Flight 1.11 check-list, it specifically states: Powerports,

Customers may only plug devices into powerports during flight
also, in our Boarding -2.10 section, it states:

Per FARs 91.21 and 121.306, all F/As must ensure that approved electronic devices are used only at authorized times.
  • When the A/C door is closed, FA1/Purser gives a cabin P.A. telling customers to turn off and stow portable electronic devices
  • If a customer uses a non-approved device, explain AA Policy and ask the customer to turn off and stow device, notify the Captain if necessary.
  • When all devices are off and put away, advise Captain "Cabin Ready"

If the Captain reports suspected interference in the cabin, (which has happened on several of my flights recently) Captain will make, or ask the FA1/Purser, a P.A. requesting passengers to turn off all electronic devices.

*F/As must verify cellular transmitting capabilities are off, e.g. see switch in "off" position. If F/A cannot verify that cellular transmitting capabilities are off, F/A must instruct customer to turn off and stow the device.

per Departure/Taxi 1.5, Safety Compliance Checks:

FAR121.306 restricts electronic devices for taxi, takeoff, and landing
Flight Attendants must complete the following duties prior to taxi, takeoff, and landing on every flight (this means before they take their jumpseat)
  • Seatbelts are fastened
  • Seatbacks upright
  • Tray tables stowed
  • Aisle-side armrest down for all aisle seats
  • Service items collected
  • Cabin and galley area secured
  • No smoking
  • Open Lavatory doors to check for persons
  • Carry-on baggage properly stowed
  • Footrests are stowed, personal video units stowed
  • Curtains tied back and/or divider partitions lowered
  • Electronic devices turned off and stowed
  • Laptop computers not stowed in seatback pockets
  • Emergency exits, door control handles and assist handles unobstructed

Prior to landing, F/As must perform a Safety Compliance Check including all elements listed above before they take their jumpseat for landing.

Please remember, even though a device is in "Airplane mode" and not transmitting, it still needs to be off and stowed for taxi, take-off and landing (not in your palm 'hidden' away from the F/A when they walk past:p). Sitting there reading e-mails, texting, or reading a book/magazine on an electronic reader is not off. With the FAA out and about doing audits, it's better for everyone (you and FAs) to just put the darn thing away for 20-30 minutes until it's ok to turn it on and continue after take-off, or after landing.


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