AAerSTL

Has anyone else been anxiously awaiting the return of mainline on ORD-HPN?

I've been hoping since early last year when the 738s returned to ORD that AA would come through and reinstate mainline service on the route. HPN can not easily handle the MD-80 due to its length runway and gate configuration, so once the 738 left ORD Eagle was the only suitable aircraft for the route. I was also hoping with the announcement of F being added to the CR7 fleet back in September that HPN would eventually see them too.

I fondly remember flying this route Thanksgiving 2004 in F on the 738. At the time it was being operated with a mix of CR7 and 738 aircraft. By 2006, the route was exclusively CR7s and has since transitioned to EMBs . With the New York market being one of the cornerstones (I know this primarily means LGA and JFK for AA), I was really hoping to eventually see mainline return from its hiatus.

It's frustrating when seemingly less worthy routes to weaker markets such as ORD-MCI/MSP/MSY/STL have mainline 738 and/or MD service yet HPN doesn't. Why are the CR7s sent on routes like ORD-OMA/CLE? You'd think a 738 miles flight with AA's "cornerstones" on both ends of the route would be mainline or 2-class RJ worthy but aparently not. Westchester County is among wealthiest counties in the nation and NY state.

I realize that since the mid-2000s the marketplace at HPN has changed with B6 and FL starting service, and other carriers like DL, CO, and US retreating. The airport has strict limitations such as hourly passenger volumes and late night arrival curfew which make things difficult for airlines serving the airport.

What are we waiting for??

pauleeepaul

Are you reporting a change, or wishing for one? I agree it would be nice. But the cities you cite appear to me to be all more meaningful commercial dstinations than HPN, when you consider the proximity of LGA.

buckeyefanflyer

I should make the same announcement for CLE. I foundly remember all the
AA aircraft that used to fly into CLE. 767, DC-10, 727,707, BAC-111,MD-80.
Never had a 737 here, 757 not scheduled but used in charters, especially remember for the 1997 World Series to MIA.
I am not sure why a larger market like CLE was made an all RJ station other
them to boot out more then 60 employees and hire lower paying employees.
Many smaller AA stations still have mainline service.

Hotel_junkie

With the amount of traffic at HPN nowadays, not sure the airport infrastructure could handle 737's without cutting the frequency of flights.

It's a friggin' zoo at HPN most days, so I am not against cutting down on the flights into and out of HPN. On the flip side, with a 737, the flight couldn't fly out of the typical ORD H1AB gate could it? they'd have to move it to one of the farther gates making it a bit more inconvenient.

AAerSTL

I'm not sure about the current capacity utilization, but I would assume that with AirTran and JetBlue operating larger aircraft that much of the permissible capacity is being used.

FWIW, AA 4048 (6:17pm ORD-HPN) is operating from G12 tonight . Actually for me there's a 95% chance I'll be taking the flight as a through passenger in ORD coming from mainline, so walking to the further gates is actually more convenient. Besides, I'd rather walk further in the airport terminal to have mainline service.

AAerSTL

I wish I could report it, but unfortunately I'm only wishing for now.

I ended up bumping a thread from April 2004 and sometime between my OP and now the thread was split and new posts were directed here. My understanding was many on FT preferred using the search function rather than starting threads whenever possible.

CMK10

I doubt it will ever happen. However, I could forsee the new two-class CR7s returning to HPN.

JDiver

One thing that may happen is AA's formative arrangements with B6 might result in some codeshare or the like ex-HPN, so it would be even less likely AA would spare a 738 for that airport. It will be interesting to see how the AA-B6 relationship will progress.

As for the search and starting new threads, the TOS / Rules specify threads over two years old should NOT be bumped and resuscitated unless the old thread is still current and there is a "compelling" reason to do so. The old thread was titled "HPN-ORD to a 738!!!!!!!", not at all current. A quick review of the FT Rules and the FT FAQ can be helpful to those wanting to be helpful. / Moderator

Avoid Bumping Very Old Threads - link to this guideline
Unless there is a compelling reason, avoid bumping threads that are more than two years old. Often the information is out-dated and it clogs the forums, making it difficult to find current threads.

AAerSTL

Flew into HPN yesterday on Eagle, flight was full with ORD connections from FRA, CDG, LHR, NRT and many of these appeared to be in J and F. What's compelling to me is that all of those destinations (except FRA at the moment) are reachable from JFK non-stop so it appears county residents prefer the convenience of their local airport and are willing to accept the inconvenience of a connection to avoid the horrendous traffic on I-678 (can take up to 1.5 hour with traffic). I took 15 minutes to get to Scarsdale from the airport compared to an hour (Friday evening, holiday weekend) for LGA/JFK.

I'm worried because it appears that the ground personnel has been outsourced to Eagle, which will be an obstacle for mainline to return. Can anyone confirm?

ESpen36

There is considerable history here. When it happened (early 2000s), I wrote to the VP of Capacity Planning and got some good information that I will share here.

Actually, the MD-80 is not permitted at HPN because of County-imposed restrictions on fuselage length. Following the retirement of the F100 fleet, AA applied to the County to try to get an exemption to use the MD-80, but the County refused to grant it. So, that left only the 738, which AA was removing from all ORD service. As a result, only Eagle service could be used, despite the obvious revenue exposure in the HPN market from not offering an F product.



I haven't flown recently out of HPN, but the last time I did, neither AA nor AE had any employees based there. Instead, AA/AE contracted with the County and the TAs/GAs were contract employees (County uniforms, not AA uniforms) who were not particularly well versed in SABRE. In fact, I remember one time I went to the desk to check in and the guy pulled out a filthy piece of paper on which he had written the instructions for checking somebody in.

FWAAA

That would not be a problem; there are other stations where all ground personnel are Eagle yet they see some mainline flights.

The TWU contract permits outsourcing if a station sees fewer than 2,555 mainline flights annually (fewer than seven per day). Agents aren't unionized and can be replaced with Eagle at AA's option.

As ESpen36 mentioned, there are some stations where all ground handling is outsourced to non-AA, non-Eagle employees.

All American Flyer

As you constantly point out, American Airlines is a business, not a charity. You were very quick to tell the NorCal folks that if AA can't operate profitably on PTP services from SFO then they should be cut. Same goes for HPN. I'm sure the folks at corporate have done the math and have decided that they are doing best when they operate EMBs (rather than CRJs/738s) out of HPN and focus on JFK/LGA for their core operations in the NYC area. It's a bit hypocritical for you to brutally tell NorCal folks that AA is a business then whine about AA not sufficiently serving the destinations that you frequent.

demkr

Metro North is your friend!

AAerSTL

I just checked a family members reservation for November and noticed HPN-ORD-HPN is going from American Eagle to American Connection/Chataqua service. The frequency times approximately remain the same; and the route is staying 5x daily except 1x on Saturday. While it's not a significant change to many passengers as they still operate EMBs (some are even leased from AMR Corp), this may dim the prospects of mainline or CRJ-700 returning.

AAerSTL

Bump.

With the impending FL/WN merger, there is the possibility AirTran will close their station at Westchester which will hopefully present AA the opportunity to re-instate mainline to ORD and launch MIA or LAX. It will also be interesting to see how things play out with UA/CO as CO last served HPN-CLE in 2006 on ExpressJet.

My mother is traveling ORD-HPN soon and has a tight connection which has me worried about the walk to the L gates for American Connection from H/K where her inbound mainline flight will arrive. Not sure why AA sent this route to American Connection/Chataqua from Eagle.