How do you decide if you should use miles or just pay for it?
Apr 16, 2010, 11:54 pm
#31
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,682
I am one of those who value miles in the 1-1.5 range. Almost all valuations in the 2 plus range come from premium classes. I just don't care about premium classes. I won't even spend the extra miles over coach.
So redeeming for coach I find it hard to break 1.2 all that often. Especially considering that I normally have to make routing or date sacrifices. My previous 4 trips to Europe have all come in under $600 with taxes so that is well under 1 cpm once the lost miles are factored in.
However with the OP's numbers it will be like 0.8 cpm factoring in miles he would earn so I too would still pay for the ticket.
So redeeming for coach I find it hard to break 1.2 all that often. Especially considering that I normally have to make routing or date sacrifices. My previous 4 trips to Europe have all come in under $600 with taxes so that is well under 1 cpm once the lost miles are factored in.
However with the OP's numbers it will be like 0.8 cpm factoring in miles he would earn so I too would still pay for the ticket.
Apr 17, 2010, 12:14 am
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
Not always true. I would say "any" one way ticket. Quite a few one way tickets are as cheap as 1/2 of the lowest price roundtrip. I often see this in transcon sale fares. It is also often true for intra-California fares. In fact, due to the low cost of an outbound and the high cost of a return from San Juan, due to cruise ship return/end of vacation Sunday, last week, I bought outbound cheap tickets and used miles for the returns. In this case, the outbound ticket was far less than 1/2 of the roundtrip price.
Apr 17, 2010, 10:15 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 202
now that i'm gold for life i just use mileage whenever a ticket is too expensive to buy. 'too expensive,' i suppose is rather subjective, but between my family's aacounts and my own, there are enough miles to go around...
Apr 18, 2010, 4:58 am
#34
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: JFK/LGA
Programs: AA EXP/5 MM, BA Blue Bayou, HH LT Diamond
Posts: 5,827
I can't value the miles for F/J redemptions at those levels because those aren't tickets I'd ever even consider paying cash for. I can only make a valid comparison for a ticket I'd actually consider buying instead of a theoretical value that means nothing to me. The actual cost of J to Europe for me is the Y ticket plus the value of two evips which certainly doesn't approach the costs of a cash J ticket.
It's also not fair to use the cost of the exact flights/carriers/routings of the award flight if that isn't the exact flight you would have purchased otherwise. Last November I redeemed 17.5K miles for a oneway LIH-IND ticket. The cost of that exact itinerary was ~$800 but I don't consider that I received $.046/mile in value. If I had paid cash for that flight I would have taken either a different carrier and/or routing and probably paid ~$400 instead. Paying $800 was never a consideration so I can't use that number even though I did enjoy the better routing and exit rows on AA instead of regular seats on Alaska.
It's also not fair to use the cost of the exact flights/carriers/routings of the award flight if that isn't the exact flight you would have purchased otherwise. Last November I redeemed 17.5K miles for a oneway LIH-IND ticket. The cost of that exact itinerary was ~$800 but I don't consider that I received $.046/mile in value. If I had paid cash for that flight I would have taken either a different carrier and/or routing and probably paid ~$400 instead. Paying $800 was never a consideration so I can't use that number even though I did enjoy the better routing and exit rows on AA instead of regular seats on Alaska.
Apr 18, 2010, 6:55 am
#35
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
I value miles at their cost of replacement. So for example for BA, CO, VS etc I value at 2.5cpm as that is how much I can buy Amex MR's at and then transfer in. Anything where the CPM on redemption is less than that I pass.
I always redeem on international and/or premium fares where generally you are always getting more than the 2.5cpm level. I don't buy this whole "I don't value premium fares" argument as millions of passengers fly on paid fares every day so this is the true market value of these fares. I personally would never fly long-haul in coach and would pay to fly premium class, but derive enjoyment from making it much cheaper through miles. This can even be on a pure cash basis... e.g. flying a family of four to South Africa in first class on BA would cost me $40k cash. OR I can buy 600k Amex MR's (actually would have to do across mine and mrs ma's accounts due to 500k annual limit) for $15k and get the same flight. Then when I factor in all the earning, churning, transfer bonuses etc I end up getting for much less than that. FACT is it is still a $40k ticket, whether or not you'd be willing to pay that in first place
I always redeem on international and/or premium fares where generally you are always getting more than the 2.5cpm level. I don't buy this whole "I don't value premium fares" argument as millions of passengers fly on paid fares every day so this is the true market value of these fares. I personally would never fly long-haul in coach and would pay to fly premium class, but derive enjoyment from making it much cheaper through miles. This can even be on a pure cash basis... e.g. flying a family of four to South Africa in first class on BA would cost me $40k cash. OR I can buy 600k Amex MR's (actually would have to do across mine and mrs ma's accounts due to 500k annual limit) for $15k and get the same flight. Then when I factor in all the earning, churning, transfer bonuses etc I end up getting for much less than that. FACT is it is still a $40k ticket, whether or not you'd be willing to pay that in first place
Apr 18, 2010, 3:37 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
I've used miles for domestic trips at the last minute (family emergencies, etc.) when the fares are outrageous.
On the MR forum, the general cutoff is $.04 per EQM or $.02 per RDM (assuming an elite bonus of 100%), implying that most people on FT expect that they can get at least $.02 per mile when redeeming miles.
I have a similar problem - my parents want to meet in CZM on specific dates and the AA tickets are $700-$800 (I would probably be bumped to Business class) versus $450 tickets (plus possible $25 baggage fees) on a charter company vs 37,000 miles (assuming I could get 35k RT Saaver inventory because I am EXP + 2000 miles I would earn on a paid RT flight).
Considering the flexibility of the AAward ticket plus the hours I will save at ticketing and security at the airport if I fly AA, I think I may use miles. In this case, my value is closer to 1 cpm if I compare to the charter versus 2 cpm for AA tickets. I am also looking at AA flights to CUN and waiting for a sale on the CZM prices, because none of the options are great right now.
In your case $490 instead of 55k miles seems much clearer - I would pay for the ticket if I had the money available.
On the MR forum, the general cutoff is $.04 per EQM or $.02 per RDM (assuming an elite bonus of 100%), implying that most people on FT expect that they can get at least $.02 per mile when redeeming miles.
I have a similar problem - my parents want to meet in CZM on specific dates and the AA tickets are $700-$800 (I would probably be bumped to Business class) versus $450 tickets (plus possible $25 baggage fees) on a charter company vs 37,000 miles (assuming I could get 35k RT Saaver inventory because I am EXP + 2000 miles I would earn on a paid RT flight).
Considering the flexibility of the AAward ticket plus the hours I will save at ticketing and security at the airport if I fly AA, I think I may use miles. In this case, my value is closer to 1 cpm if I compare to the charter versus 2 cpm for AA tickets. I am also looking at AA flights to CUN and waiting for a sale on the CZM prices, because none of the options are great right now.
In your case $490 instead of 55k miles seems much clearer - I would pay for the ticket if I had the money available.
Apr 18, 2010, 9:56 pm
#37
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Encino, CA USA
Programs: AA EP
Posts: 136
There was a time I would do all the calculations to determine cpm, but I've gotten to the point that if there is a plan ahead seat (domestic) or business / first (international) seat I'll use the miles.
Jul 9, 2010, 1:19 pm
#38
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 31
Find this thread really interesting. We are planning a family trip for next summer HNL - BCN. Was planning to use miles. Need 5 seats.
Thoughts:
1. use miles for coach
2. buy tickets ( avg. price $ 1700 ) and use miles for upgrades
Any other ideas I should consider?
Thanks,
Jen
Thoughts:
1. use miles for coach
2. buy tickets ( avg. price $ 1700 ) and use miles for upgrades
Any other ideas I should consider?
Thanks,
Jen
Jul 9, 2010, 1:46 pm
#39
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA 1.5 MM Exec Plat, WN A-List, DL Silver, UA nonrev
Posts: 2,593
Find this thread really interesting. We are planning a family trip for next summer HNL - BCN. Was planning to use miles. Need 5 seats.
Thoughts:
1. use miles for coach
2. buy tickets ( avg. price $ 1700 ) and use miles for upgrades
Any other ideas I should consider?
Thanks,
Jen
Thoughts:
1. use miles for coach
2. buy tickets ( avg. price $ 1700 ) and use miles for upgrades
Any other ideas I should consider?
Thanks,
Jen
Jul 9, 2010, 1:58 pm
#40
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 31
I know I will need all the miles gods smiling upon me for this one! Have always been able to get 5 seats to East Coast from HNL. Hopefully will get lucky with 5, if not will try for 4 or 3.
Jul 9, 2010, 2:20 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,682
Find this thread really interesting. We are planning a family trip for next summer HNL - BCN. Was planning to use miles. Need 5 seats.
Thoughts:
1. use miles for coach
2. buy tickets ( avg. price $ 1700 ) and use miles for upgrades
Any other ideas I should consider?
Thanks,
Jen
Thoughts:
1. use miles for coach
2. buy tickets ( avg. price $ 1700 ) and use miles for upgrades
Any other ideas I should consider?
Thanks,
Jen
Jul 9, 2010, 2:56 pm
#42
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 31
Am i correct in that the upgrade is 25000 miles and $350 each way?
Jul 9, 2010, 3:19 pm
#43
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA 1.5 MM Exec Plat, WN A-List, DL Silver, UA nonrev
Posts: 2,593
Correct. North America to Europe upgrades (from discounted economy tickets) cost 25,000 miles + $350 co-pay each way:
http://www.aa.com/i18n/disclaimers/o...rade-chart.jsp
http://www.aa.com/i18n/disclaimers/o...rade-chart.jsp
Jul 9, 2010, 8:26 pm
#45
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
June is not yet loaded into the system. For a trial in May 15-29, the tickets are 1700$ each in AA for coach.
Here I would use 100k AA miles and go in Biz all the way.
Or use 100k miles each for family of 3-4, buy coach for me / 2 and upgrade with VIP as far in advance as possible.
If even considering coach all the way, then by all means use miles. Much cheaper.
Remember that to upgrade you have to
1 buy economy at 1500
2 spend 50k miles
3 spend 700$ =
Total value = 3000$ - for which I would just buy Biz.
Better to get C awards directly.
Here I would use 100k AA miles and go in Biz all the way.
Or use 100k miles each for family of 3-4, buy coach for me / 2 and upgrade with VIP as far in advance as possible.
If even considering coach all the way, then by all means use miles. Much cheaper.
Remember that to upgrade you have to
1 buy economy at 1500
2 spend 50k miles
3 spend 700$ =
Total value = 3000$ - for which I would just buy Biz.
Better to get C awards directly.