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AA Expands NYC Service, Announces "Partnership" with JetBlue / B6 (consolidated)

AA Expands NYC Service, Announces "Partnership" with JetBlue / B6 (consolidated)

 
Old Apr 5, 2010, 12:58 pm
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by AAerSTL

....The company’s future growth is not to be financed from the pockets of its employees, already picket clean. APFA does not stand for: AMR’s Project Funding Account. Our members have clearly spoken: the bank of APFA is closed. Now more than ever, it’s Our Turn.
That was funny; and I'm hopeful they remain positively focused.
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Old Apr 5, 2010, 5:43 pm
  #152  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
I don't see any talk of connecting T-7 with T-8. This announcement is about BA possibly moving to an expanded T-8. As you mentioned, T-8 was built to just over half of its initially planned size, and now is the time to explore expanding it.
yes, although completion of the stunted T8 wing past Gate 14 would push the terminal edge closer to T7, linking the two airside would still be a major pain.
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Old Apr 6, 2010, 7:29 pm
  #153  
 
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Originally Posted by martin33
yes, although completion of the stunted T8 wing past Gate 14 would push the terminal edge closer to T7, linking the two airside would still be a major pain.

Not really. As I've mentioned, a simple people mover connection will suffice, and would be not much more difficult than the original AirTrain JFK construction.

Since BA is very proud of having their very own terminal at JFK (and for that matter anywhere in the US), I doubt that they will willingly give up that terminal easily--particulary after investing so much $$$ in upgrading T7.

Another issue concerns the threat posed by DL.

DL needs new terminals at JFK; the question is where to go for "swing space" during construction?

One idea that I've heard discussed by an informed source was to try and relocate all or some of the current T4 tenants to T8, and then give over T4 to DL during the period of construction.

I doubt that AA would want to assist in that process so that DL could benefit from a new JFK terminal.

Alternatively, moving BA to AA allows DL to use T7 and T6 (if also needed) as swing space, with T7 being attractive since they have FIS facilities. Again, hard to imagine that BA would willingly go along to benefit a competitor.
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Old Apr 6, 2010, 7:46 pm
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Globehopper

Since BA is very proud of having their very own terminal at JFK (and for that matter anywhere in the US), I doubt that they will willingly give up that terminal easily--particulary after investing so much $$$ in upgrading T7.
I thought the big upgrade with the premium check-in driveway and new lounges was on hold still.
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Old Apr 7, 2010, 6:37 am
  #155  
 
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler
I thought the big upgrade with the premium check-in driveway and new lounges was on hold still.
That could still be; I was referring to the prior T7 upgrades which are in place today.
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Old Apr 7, 2010, 9:58 am
  #156  
 
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Originally Posted by Globehopper
Since BA is very proud of having their very own terminal at JFK (and for that matter anywhere in the US), I doubt that they will willingly give up that terminal easily--particulary after investing so much $$$ in upgrading T7.
I haven't seen very much evidence of such "pride." In any event, T7 is not really BA's "very own terminal;" UA's name on it is just as prominent, and UA has both its Red Carpet Club and an International First Lounge within. UA's *A partners US and NH also use T7.

But as far as BA's investment in T7, I don't know how that is reflected in "ownership;" would BA have to just write it off, if it moved? Seems unlikely, but you may be right, there.

Originally Posted by Globehopper
DL needs new terminals at JFK; the question is where to go for "swing space" during construction?

One idea that I've heard discussed by an informed source was to try and relocate all or some of the current T4 tenants to T8, and then give over T4 to DL during the period of construction.

I doubt that AA would want to assist in that process so that DL could benefit from a new JFK terminal.

Alternatively, moving BA to AA allows DL to use T7 and T6 (if also needed) as swing space, with T7 being attractive since they have FIS facilities. Again, hard to imagine that BA would willingly go along to benefit a competitor.
Move LH to T7, and let it take over the BA lounges.

Move JL to T8, since expansion is in the works anyway.

That opens up two sets of lounges and gates in T1 for Delta and Skyteam (in addition to the existing AF). Add an airside shuttle to T4, pending the renovation of T2, which will connect airside with T1. No more T3.

No more need for DL and KL to use T4. Everybody happy.

Where do I send my bill?
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Old Apr 7, 2010, 10:34 am
  #157  
 
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Originally Posted by GaryD
I haven't seen very much evidence of such "pride." In any event, T7 is not really BA's "very own terminal;" UA's name on it is just as prominent, and UA has both its Red Carpet Club and an International First Lounge within. UA's *A partners US and NH also use T7.



Move LH to T7, and let it take over the BA lounges.

Move JL to T8, since expansion is in the works anyway.

No more need for DL and KL to use T4. Everybody happy.

Where do I send my bill?
Send the bill to the PANYNJ.

Our friends at BA would be chagrined at your comment about "pride." Here's a comment from the CEO:

http://www.observer.com/2008/termina...out-air-travel

Note that they just spent another $30 million on T7.

While UA is displayed on T7 exterior, T7's "ownership" (technically a long term lease) belongs to BA.

LH and JL as founding members of TOGA (Terminal One) are not likely to move without serious incentives. They're not just mere tenants; they've invested serious $$$ there, just as BA and AA has elsewhere at JFK.

Indeed, LH recently opened a new First Class (in addition to Senator and business class) lounge there. JL and LH like having a terminal which they can call the shots as joint landlords (party of four when it opened), not as tenants.

Essentially, the terminals at JFK is a game of musical chairs, where the music has stopped and AA, BA, B6, JL all have shiny new (or relatively new) terminals, and DL has two old ones.
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Old Apr 7, 2010, 11:47 am
  #158  
 
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Originally Posted by Globehopper
Essentially, the terminals at JFK is a game of musical chairs, where the music has stopped and AA, BA, B6, JL all have shiny new (or relatively new) terminals, and DL has two old ones.
I think we're just between notes for the time being.

But when you put it that way, yeah, OW (plus B6) rules JFK. DL has the oldest, and UA/US subleases the second oldest, terminal (still in use).

What's bad for them is good for AA, I guess.
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 5:57 am
  #159  
 
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JetBlue and oneworld: AA+B6=B6 OW?

According to this article, it seems to be a possibility as both AA and B6 CEOs haven't ruled out that possibility and it seems several OW carriers have "expressed their desire to speak to JetBlue."

Oneworld Eyeing JetBlue Links
http://bit.ly/cY9wn4


Looks like anything is possible in this hectic aviation era. Wow, I'd never would've thought it'd be a considerable option. AS' entry into OW would've been plausible but B6?

OTOH, bringing in B6 into a more cooperative codeshare would bring certain benefits as they do have several intra-West coast routes (SEA, PDX, SLC, SMF and SFO) that could be plugged in by OW, albeit many of those are to LGB instead of LAX.

Last edited by kebosabi; Apr 10, 2010 at 6:03 am
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 9:29 am
  #160  
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
According to this article, it seems to be a possibility as both AA and B6 CEOs haven't ruled out that possibility and it seems several OW carriers have "expressed their desire to speak to JetBlue."

Oneworld Eyeing JetBlue Links
http://bit.ly/cY9wn4

Looks like anything is possible in this hectic aviation era. Wow, I'd never would've thought it'd be a considerable option. AS' entry into OW would've been plausible but B6?
You can always hope for it but i will never bank on it unless more OW airlines signed codeshare or FFP with B6...
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 9:35 am
  #161  
 
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
According to this article, it seems to be a possibility as both AA and B6 CEOs haven't ruled out that possibility and it seems several OW carriers have "expressed their desire to speak to JetBlue."
There's already an extensive discussion of the partnership here:

<redacted link>

Last edited by JDiver; Apr 10, 2010 at 11:52 am Reason: unnecessary after merge - thanks
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 12:01 pm
  #162  
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This has been merged into the general B6+AA thread for member convenience.

As others have speculated, this move could be accomplished in a number of ways, including B6 using the Club Europe layout for the forward cabin, etc. etc. I do wonder specifically who Arpey is implicating when he says "Arpey said some other alliance CEOs had expressed their desire to speak to JetBlue."

I'll bet there are quite a few of us who would enjoy earning EQM and having some privileges, not to mention nonstop flight connections with NYC from destinations currently requiring stops at DFW et al.

Originally Posted by kebosabi
According to this article, it seems to be a possibility as both AA and B6 CEOs haven't ruled out that possibility and it seems several OW carriers have "expressed their desire to speak to JetBlue."

Oneworld Eyeing JetBlue Links
http://bit.ly/cY9wn4


Looks like anything is possible in this hectic aviation era. Wow, I'd never would've thought it'd be a considerable option. AS' entry into OW would've been plausible but B6?

OTOH, bringing in B6 into a more cooperative codeshare would bring certain benefits as they do have several intra-West coast routes (SEA, PDX, SLC, SMF and SFO) that could be plugged in by OW, albeit many of those are to LGB instead of LAX.
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 1:09 pm
  #163  
 
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Excellent News

This is too good to be true. There are nonstop flights from SJC-JFK and one being added from SJC-BOS. The SJC-BOS will be an overnight flight which is good for me since I can spend the whole day upon arrival and depart later on in the evening on the return.

If I can earn Advantage miles and even stopover at JFK and have my bags checked through to Europe that would be cool!
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 8:29 am
  #164  
 
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Originally Posted by martin33
the mechanics of it have everything to do with anti-trust, as coordinating schedules/prices absent ATI is illegal and an open invitation to a lawsuit.
Just ain't so in the real world. Ask anyone who lived in SJC or RDU where AA conspired with QQ and JI respectively. AA simply discontinues the routes it doesn't want, B6 takes them, and that's that.

As ex-CEO Bob Crandall of AA so eloquently said to Howard Putnam of Braniff, "Oh, bulls**t, Howard. We can talk about any g******n thing we want to talk about." And what was the eventual outcome of United States v. American Airlines Inc. and Robert L. Crandall, the anti-trust case that led to the public disclosure of that wonderful tidbit? Nothing of substance. Read http://www.stern.nyu.edu/eco/wkpaper...99-03White.pdf.

USDOJ sees little reason to stick its nose into an industry where almost every airline loses money. Sure, there is pro forma review of mergers in order to satisfy the unions. Beyond that, the anti-trust enforcement people have real problems to worry about -- not the constant shuffling of airline routes and alliances.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 12:36 am
  #165  
 
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I wonder – if BA moves from T7 to T8 at JFK, would they build new BA lounges in the terminal or would they share lounge space with AA (like Quantas at LAX)? I have a suspicion that to save money they would go for the latter strategy but the idea of having access to a BA F lounge at T8 in JFK has lots of appeal
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