GetAA81Back2ARN

Hi all experts out there

Sorry for a long post.

Once upon a time interlining baggage was a fairly simple thing. The most generous rule was applied to the entire ticket. Overweight fees could be a different thing but usually rather simple as well as it was based on final destination.

Nowadays the airlines have made so many different rules so they cannot even explain them themselves. Add codeshares and interlining into the situation and the mess have become total.

To the best of my understanding the rule is now that fess and rules have become dependent on the first segment's operating carrier and (in some cases) what benefits you have as FF member on that operating carrier.


Have any of you experience in the following (or similar) examples?

While they are hypothetical at the moment thay may not be during the year.

All examples assume a single ticket in coach and two bags at 45 lbs (20 kg) each.

1) ARN (BA) -> LHR (AA) -> ORD
2) ARN (SK) -> LHR (AA) -> ORD
3) OGG (HA) -> HNL (AA) -> ORD (AA) -> LHR
4) ATL (DL) -> ORD (AA) -> LHR


Here is what I have found out regarding fees on the carriers websites.

BA:
One bag (max 23 kg) is allowed free of charge. Second bag is charged at Ł35 on European routes and Ł40 on international routes (including USA). No extra limit for oneworld elite members (only BA Gold and Silver)

SK:
On European routes there is no limit in the number of bags but the total weight is 20 kg. On routes to the US the limit is 2x23 kg. As a Star Alliance Gold member I am allowed 20 kg extra weight on European routes and on US routes I am allowed one extra bag at 23 kg. Overweight within Europe is charged at €11 per kg and to the US at €150 per bag.

HA:
Charges $10 for the first bag on interisland flights and $17 for the second. According to another thread it seems that they charge based on the first segment (interisland) and then leave the bags to AA which takes care of them at no additional charge. I have no status with HA.

DL:
$25 for the first bag and $35 for the second on domestic flights. On flights to Europe the first bag is free and the second is charged at $55.


AA.com does not contain the requested information (at least not easy to find) on how to handle interlining. I have asked AA both over the phone and check in agents in the US recently and they does not seem know what the rules say.

Asking SK they said that they think it is the limit of the ticketing carrier. While the person I spoke to wouldn't charge me extra as I am a SK *G member he said that as it was an AA ticket the *A benefits wouldn't apply.

One agent at BA said it was based on the original destination (USA) while the other thought it was based on as far as BA would fly me (London).


What annoys me is that noone seems to be able to answer and that there is no chance of knowing how much to pay so that you can argue with a check in attendant. Knowing how hard it is to get money back from the airlines this is truly problem.

Is it all up to the CI agent to make up the rules depending on his/her mood?


Thank's for any knowledge/experiences in this area.

emma dog

In my experience, the rules for the 1st carrier are what you're going to experience. Assuming you are on one itinerary then you should get the "International" rules on the routes with the international segment. Also in my experience, it's not the ticketing carrier that matters... it's the operating carrier. So in my example below even if you purchased the ticket from AA.com and flew on an AA codeshare, you'll still pay the AS fee. The last thing I want to throw out there is that no one other than the originating carrier ever sees your fee.

For example, if you fly:
FAI(AS)-SEA(AA)-ORD you'll pay AS' fees and play by AS's rules ($15/$25/$50). Not AA's.

GetAA81Back2ARN

Thank's. I agree that the ticketing carrier shouldn't have anything to do with this. But at the same time I think SK (Scandinavian Airlines) as well as several other European carriers works according to the old IATA rules and then the tickteting carrier had something to do with the allowances (the carrier with the longhaul segment usually became the ticketing carrier).

One reason I added international segments on all my example was that the fees may differ rather much between domestic and international trips.

emma dog

Not that it is entirely applicable to your example, a couple years ago I was a nobody on OW and Gold on *A. I flew: SEA(UA)-IAD(UA)-MIA(AA)-GYE r/t ticketed via UAL.com. I got a 3 bag allowance going to GYE and had to consolidate/carry on from GYE to MIA to avoid paying the excess bag fee.

Not to go back through all the work you did above, BA and IB both say it's the operating carrier that counts. And there's a chance that you could have to pay more at some point down the road (but it's unlikely unless you have to physically check in).


From the BA.com website: (under traveling on other airlines)

If you are travelling with an airline operating on behalf of British Airways, that airline's baggage policy will apply. Our franchises use smaller planes, which means your allowances may be smaller.

If you have purchased a ticket which includes travel on another airline, the British Airways baggage allowance may be more generous and you could be charged for extra baggage by the onward carrier.

Once you have made a booking the details of the airline operating your flight can be found in Manage My Booking. You will need to contact the airline directly to confirm their baggage allowances.

GetAA81Back2ARN

I also found that quote on ba.com. It is amazing on how vague they can put the text with "may" and "could". You can not really be sure of what you buy... (But you need to sign of that you had understood all rules before you can purchase the ticket!)

Based on this (is it a fact or theory?) it would make sense that the fee charged on check in is based on how long you fly with the carrier operating the first segment.

So OGG-HNL-LAX (HA) -> LHR (AA) would mean that HA would charge mainland fees rather than interisland fees (and NOT international fees).

But you can bet on that UA would love to charge international fees on a ticket SFO-ORD-ARN all on UA flight numbers even though the last flight is operated by Scandinavian Airlines which currently allows 2 free bags (they are about to change as well).

Nick90274

I've flown EDI-LHR-LAX/ORD/DFW (all on one ticket and AA flight numbers) quite a bit over the last year and have never had an issue checking in two bags with BA in Edinburgh. I know others have had issues with BA charging for the extra bag but I find it ridiculous that *technically* BA's rules apply when it's all booked with AA on one ticket.

I wish Oneworld would come up with a more uniform baggage policy for elites. A lot of times I book through Amex travel and can't get an AA codeshare from London to Edinburgh which is fine on the outbound as I just book a separate BA flight and AA checks my two bags all the way through anyway. However, on the return more often than not I end up taking the train to London rather than catching a BA flight as I know I'll get hit with the baggage fees because they'd be separate tickets. Do Star and Skyteam have some sort of uniform baggage policy for elites? I know AA waives baggage fees for Oneworld elites, it's a shame it isn't reciprocated.

hillrider

This is a frequent question here and the bottom line is that there are no rules about this; the Conditions of Carriage imposed on you are silent, and the DOT has not forced the airlines to provide any clarity on this subject.

The practice seems that at each check-in, whatever rules the (operating) carrier that checks you in apply to the piece of the journey that you're checking in for. This is irrespective of whether you're booked direct or as a codeshare, whose carrier's tariff is used for the pricing unit(s) for the segment(s) you're checking in for, which carrier issued your ticket, or anything else.

Since there are no rules and this is not part of your contract, this practice may or may not be universal and may change at any moment.

You can (and should) bring your research and your frustration to the DOT at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm; they ought to give you a definite answer on it (it's their job and we pay taxes on our ticket to pay for it).

sipples

It also sounds like a ripe opportunity for a class action lawsuit, so the airlines ought to solve this problem quickly.

Star Alliance has reciprocal free baggage allowances for elites, FWIW.

holbiho

Ok so i bought my tickets on AA

RDU-JFK-LHR-HAM-LHR-RDU


I was traveling with 2 bags as i took my golf clubs. No problems with check-in at USA..but at LHR i had to re-check my bags and the issues slowly start up..

BA check-in counter said i was allowed only 1 bag... had to pay extra for the second bag.... i explained to the lady that AA allows me 2 bags on intl flights.. she said the system says i should only have 1 and offered to check with a supervisor.. after a few minutes she came back and said said... Sir, your right.. no problem.. override the issue. Handled great by the BA agent--- no problems

However.... on the return trip... BA check in Hamburg airport was the opposite. First BA agent --- says.. NO its 1 bag or 48 EUROS... i told him my situation and the LHR experience and he said insists." Its always been 1 bag, your incorrect." So i asked for a supervisor to assist. Another lady came and said the same thing. 1 bag only. Again i pleaded my case... and she sent to see the Customer Service Manager for BA...

The Customer Service guy wasnt hearing it... he said "Nothing i can do. American Airlines policy and BA policy is 1 bag on international flights." I tell im AA Gold/Ruby and he says "We dont recognize that status level.. thats the lowest level." ahh ok.. So now im getting alittle upset about this issue..... i decided to call American Airlines on my cell phone... and the AA customer service people said.. the BA agent is wrong... so I asked the BA Supervisor if he could talk to the AA agent on the cell phone. " No, i dont need to talk to anyone at AA.... its one bag.. and 48 Euros for the second bag."

The BA customer service guy was d-bag... really was not helpful and rude..

The AA agent on the phone told me to go ahead and pay and they would mail me the reimbursement for the baggage fee.
This whole episode took over 1.5 hours... crazy...

Today.. im writing to AA and BA because it was so annoying...

BAK

Yes, the situation a total mess and the rules are not defined. I travel a lot to GVA, so I have to fly my first leg back on LH or BA. So far, I have not been asked to pay for a second bag but I think this is because I usually get upgraded on the AA legs and I am Explat. On one occasion the LH agent did tell me that the 2nd bag would be 50 USD, but luckily that time I had only one bag with me.

HNL

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

You were given the correct info in HAM by all the BA staff and succeed wasting 90 min of your own time and furthered the stereotype of the ugly American. You were granted a favor in LHR.

I don't like the crazy mixed up policy, but the check-in staff are not the ones to yell at.

hillrider

Yes, title thread is absolutely correct. The bottom line is that there are no rules about interline baggage; the Conditions of Carriage and International General Rules AA1 imposed on you are vague (the latter say "In addition to the charges or fees included as part of the purchased fare(s) on the ticket, passengers on codeshare flights operated by another carrier may also be subject to charges and fees imposed by the operating codeshare carrier"), and the DOT has not forced the airlines to provide any clarity on this subject.

The practice seems that at each check-in, whatever rules the (operating) carrier that checks you in apply to all of the flights that you're checking in for, even if you're switching (operating) carriers. This is irrespective of whether you're booked directly or as a codeshare, whose carrier's tariff is used for the pricing unit(s) for the segment(s) you're checking in for, which carrier issued your ticket, or anything else.

Since there are no rules and it's not part of your contract, this practice may or may not be universal and may change at any moment.

You can (and should) let the DOT know about this confusion and how it's affecting you at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm; they've started listening to voters again, and can't force the airlines to fix the issue until they know about it from fliers.

OP: since you are dealing with a live case and have done a ton of research about it, just ask the DOT for an opinion on what the correct fees should be in your case and escalate this all the way to the top if needed.

Degan

Agreed, if BA is the operating carrier, then when you check your bag with them, their rules apply. Unfortunately, they have no love for OW elites as far as baggage goes. However, they can be forgiven given their great lounges. Also, if you have to re-check a bag somewhere along your route, you might have to suffer other rules.

I rarely check bags, but when I was cleaning out an apartment, I had a heavy (30kg) bag to check, in addition to my carry on. Unfortunately, I chose an AA codeshare operated by BA, rather than travelling on a train to catch an AA operated flight.

Checking-in with BA was interesting. The terminal agent did not know the codes to take my bag. Her supervisor, had a full page cheet-sheet of codes to enter in order to charge me for the overweight bag. She said it was so complicated as there was revenue sharing with AA for my overweight bag.

Bottom-line, when travelling, pay the fee and get it done (IMHO). If you feel you were wronged, write a concise message to customer service.

Xero

One area where OW needs to come up with an agreement is consistent rules for at least OW elites reguarding bags. Even if it's just 1 bag checked in, that would help a lot.

Dave Noble

It is consistent; the rules are the same for all passengers whether they have status or not

if checking in with BA, then BA's allowances apply , check in with QF, QF allowances apply etc

AA happens to allow those with OW status to check 2 bags in for free but that is just an AA exception; if wanting consistency, just getting that changed would do it