HP F/As are hurting

Old Sep 4, 05, 11:15 pm
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Question HP F/As are hurting

FYI

Are you aware when this HP/US air merger goes through, as it stand now it will will negatively effecting all the Flight attendant at HP. Namely, due to AFA (union) pushing for Date of Hire in "seniority" for the new US airways, HP crew is at disadvantage. Specifically, US airways is more than 40+ years old while HP is only 22 years old. Hence, the majority of HP F/A either will be "at the bottom of list" way behind most of US F/As, or ( there is a very strong possibility), end up on the unemployement line after this merger. Is there anyway we could help them, to get out from this predicament?
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Old Sep 5, 05, 12:38 am
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Originally Posted by magda
FYI

Are you aware when this HP/US air merger goes through, as it stand now it will will negatively effecting all the Flight attendant at HP. Namely, due to AFA (union) pushing for Date of Hire in "seniority" for the new US airways, HP crew is at disadvantage. Specifically, US airways is more than 40+ years old while HP is only 22 years old. Hence, the majority of HP F/A either will be "at the bottom of list" way behind most of US F/As, or ( there is a very strong possibility), end up on the unemployement line after this merger. Is there anyway we could help them, to get out from this predicament?
in a word, no. since both workgroups are represented by AFA, they automatically must follow AFA national bylaws, which are the strictest in the industry on the subject.

they will be able to negotiate things like bidding rights at the various bases, but not the "hiring" seniority that determines who gets laid off when.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 8:02 am
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In the old days, the more senior you were, the less you worked and the more you made. The labor costs incurred by a senior workforce were stifling in the deregulated environment.

I'd venture a guess that when AFA campaigned at HP, they sold the flight attendants on the protection afforded them as AFA members in case of acquisition or merger.

They'll get what they signed up for.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 8:55 am
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Yes it is something that we are all worried about. I am in the passenger service group (ticket/gate agents) and we have concerns over seniority dates. The company is still trying to come up with a plan to present to the unions, hopefully that would include "dove-tailing" which works out pretty good from what I hear. Who knows....It's not such a big deal to me...I've worked there for about 5 years but life goes on...I'll deal with what ever happens.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 5:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Joeypete
Yes it is something that we are all worried about. I am in the passenger service group (ticket/gate agents) and we have concerns over seniority dates. The company is still trying to come up with a plan to present to the unions, hopefully that would include "dove-tailing" which works out pretty good from what I hear. Who knows....It's not such a big deal to me...I've worked there for about 5 years but life goes on...I'll deal with what ever happens.
management gets to offer suggestions, but gets no actual role in producing the merged seniority lists. for the pilots, ALPA has criteria established to guide the outcome, only one of which is date of hire. a weighted "dove-tailing" outcome is likely. outside of bidding rights, however, the F/A's are SOL because AFA's hire date rule has no exceptions.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 6:41 pm
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Fyi

I did not know, that there is such an animosity (sp?) towards HP f/a, THAT WARRANT "SOL".. I do not have knowledge re: why, how, etc they went with AFA, the only knowledge I have: a., that they are loyal to the company; b., they work markedly less wages than the legacy airline F/A's. c., they were promised by different CEO's if we make $$ you will be rewarded, too. With, this merger it is questionablle if they will have a job past 1.5 years fence agreement.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 6:56 pm
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"old" US = east coast, HP = west coast. Do you really think that there will be a lot of "old" US F/A's wanting to move west? I highly doubt it. I have many F/A friends here in PIT and some already have been reassigned to CLT or PHL. They have to commute until they can move (at their expense). Do you really think there will be a mass exodus to the west by F/A's that have to pay to move?

Again, HIGHLY DOUBTFUL. As a very good friend told me this weekend....he's not moving. He's on involuntary "extended" furlough and he's been assigned to CLT for when his furlough is over.

The fences will stand for more than 1.5 years too. By the time that its time for those fences to come down there may not be any "old" US F/A's to worry about anyway.

Why do you seem to so concerned about the F/A's anyway? Dating one like I am?

Last edited by trvlr64; Sep 5, 05 at 6:59 pm
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Old Sep 5, 05, 7:34 pm
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Fyi

NO, I am not dating any F/A or pilots. I am just interested in the human aspect of this merger, which lots of people are forgetting. Most of the time in this kind of event we ( I am guilty of it myself) only think "how will it effect me"? Thus , this time I am trying to be walking in the other persons shoes.

I am sorry for any one who needs to travel hrs to start earning $. There are many former PSA employees who commute to the East Coast and I am sure it will be markedly easier for them not "to shuttle " for at least 4 hrs , etc.

Based on my training and practice, I look at the human aspect of the events. being a merger , downsizing, outsourcing, etc .

thank you for listening.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 8:23 pm
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i may be in the minority, but i think its crap that any HP employee gets the ax b/c of the inability to figure out a fair way to merge seniority lists.

I hate to say it US but your doors would be shutting any day if not for HP and every high seniority employee would be low on the list at the unemployment office.

I sure hope the unions and managment of both companies can avoid the catastrophe that happened with AA and TWA, although it would be the other way around with the weaker company winning in terms of seniority.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 8:51 pm
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That is what you get when you deal with unions........
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Old Sep 5, 05, 9:18 pm
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Integrating seniority lists

Philadelphia Inquirer Article
See entire article here

Both the Air Line Pilots Association and the Association of Flight Attendants, which represent employees at both companies, have policies that call for the unions to negotiate their own agreements for integrating seniority lists. If the groups can't reach an agreement, an arbitrator would devise a solution.

Among the ways that the seniority of many employees may be protected is for the groups to agree to "fence off" certain pilot and flight attendant bases such as Philadelphia and Phoenix, preventing senior workers from other bases from bumping more junior employees out of their jobs, union officials said.
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Old Sep 5, 05, 11:00 pm
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Originally Posted by trvlr64
The fences will stand for more than 1.5 years too. By the time that its time for those fences to come down there may not be any "old" US F/A's to worry about anyway.
there's no disputing that there will be fences, and no, no one wants to move for the most part. but the fact remains that HP f/a's are getting a very raw deal that is only a little better than the rawest possible "staple to the bottom of the list" deal that TW f/a's got. it's particularly galling because it's the HP f/a's who are in the acquiring camp.

the question is what happens when there are downsizings? and there will be, even if times don't ever go bad after the merger-- the publicly announced target workforce size is ca 35,000 post-merger. HP staff get canned from the west, and US staff get involuntary transfers westwards, just as TW's "fenced" STL base is now staffed solely with involuntarily transferred AA f/a's.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 4:29 am
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Have to reply to these posts - I have been an AWA flight attendant for 21 years. If this merger goes down, I am powerless to stop the date of hire policy that is in place by my union AFA unless a MAJOR outpouring takes place. This DOH policy will affect my career for as long as I work here. I respect Doug Parker for what he has done to turn this airline around and make me proud to be an employee. Even he has stated that he does not one single AWA employee to be harmed by this merger. Well, if AFA National has their way and we go with DOH, then EVERY AWA flight attendant will feel that effect for the rest of their careers. We are trying to band together and get the word out, but we are very troubled as to what the future holds. USAir right now is proposing a 1 1/2 year fence, meaning that after that time the number of USAir f/a coming into PHX - based on those leaving (usually junior f/a) will happen. If that number coming in is senior to me then I move down in seniority which affects EVERY aspect of my life. We really want this to work out, we want the product to remain stable (and get better) but we do not want to see any AWA employee getting screwed in the meantime. The DOH policy is not a by-law and CAN be changed at the BOD meeting in October. Hopefully we will have our "ducks in a row" by then. Your "HOMETOWN AIRLINE" employees will fight this as long as we can. We have been here since the beginning and we will be here in the end.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 7:18 am
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Vote out AFA

If memory serves correctly, under the Railway Labor Act, once a labor group elects representation by a union they cannot reverse their decision. They must be represented by a union. Perhaps the HP F/A's should reconsider their representation and call for a vote to form an in-house union. This might give them the bargaining power in the acquisition of US they hope for.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 12:29 pm
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HP F/A's Are The Best

The only reason I fly HP is because of the great service from their F/A's.The food in F class sucks.
I hope Doug Parker takes this into consideration.
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