HP F/As are hurting

Old Oct 29, 2005, 10:20 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by martin33
short of decertifying AFA, what can HP f/a's do if the AFA national board is uncooperative?

What you need to do as a union is stick together vote no and force this to arbitration, then you may have a chance to go against the AFA policy of DOH. The pilots have pooled funds and retained counsel just for this, the F/A's should also.
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Old Oct 29, 2005, 4:33 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by magda
FYI

Are you aware when this HP/US air merger goes through, as it stand now it will will negatively effecting all the Flight attendant at HP. Namely, due to AFA (union) pushing for Date of Hire in "seniority" for the new US airways, HP crew is at disadvantage. Specifically, US airways is more than 40+ years old while HP is only 22 years old. Hence, the majority of HP F/A either will be "at the bottom of list" way behind most of US F/As, or ( there is a very strong possibility), end up on the unemployement line after this merger. Is there anyway we could help them, to get out from this predicament?
I'm missing something here. I doubt that all US F/As have more than 22 years of service (this would mean that they have hired zero F/As since 1983). I don't expect that the combined entity would lay off all F/As with less than 22 years (I would guess that they would have to lay off 2/3 of all F/As to get there). My guess is that layoffs might catch the last 5 years or less. If that is the case, why should a HP person with, for example, 2 years of service be kept and a US person with 8 years be laid off?
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Old Oct 29, 2005, 8:03 pm
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Originally Posted by gemac
My guess is that layoffs might catch the last 5 years or less. If that is the case, why should a HP person with, for example, 2 years of service be kept and a US person with 8 years be laid off?
because it's not a merger of equals; it's HP picking up the carcass of a dead US Air...

getting an abitrator to agree to go against the union rule seems quite a longshot.
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Old Oct 29, 2005, 9:28 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gemac
I'm missing something here. I doubt that all US F/As have more than 22 years of service (this would mean that they have hired zero F/As since 1983). I don't expect that the combined entity would lay off all F/As with less than 22 years (I would guess that they would have to lay off 2/3 of all F/As to get there). My guess is that layoffs might catch the last 5 years or less. If that is the case, why should a HP person with, for example, 2 years of service be kept and a US person with 8 years be laid off?
It's always interesting when people discuss union dominated jobs. For us non-union management types, layoffs hit very unequally. Last week, my company went through layoffs. Both of the people layed off in my department had much more senority than I did. Yet, I still have a job and they don't.

That being said, the lists should be combined fairly. The HP FA's should NOT be stapled at or near the bottom of the list.
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Old Oct 30, 2005, 12:47 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by magda
FYI

Are you aware when this HP/US air merger goes through, as it stand now it will will negatively effecting all the Flight attendant at HP. Namely, due to AFA (union) pushing for Date of Hire in "seniority" for the new US airways, HP crew is at disadvantage. Specifically, US airways is more than 40+ years old while HP is only 22 years old. Hence, the majority of HP F/A either will be "at the bottom of list" way behind most of US F/As, or ( there is a very strong possibility), end up on the unemployement line after this merger. Is there anyway we could help them, to get out from this predicament?
Given that U was essentially a liquidated carrier, the only fair solution is to staple the U seniority to the botton of the AWA list.
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Old Oct 30, 2005, 5:15 am
  #36  
 
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from usaviation.com


http://www.usaviation.com/forums/ind...howtopic=22451


the DOH applies and this subject is officially closed by the AFA union.
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Old Oct 30, 2005, 9:08 pm
  #37  
 
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Yes the DOH proposal got shot down at the AFA BOD meeting in PSP. We are now hoping for a significant fence in PHX that will protect our jobs. We have no idea when we will hear anything regarding this.
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Old Oct 30, 2005, 10:40 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by magda
FYI

Are you aware when this HP/US air merger goes through, as it stand now it will will negatively effecting all the Flight attendant at HP. Namely, due to AFA (union) pushing for Date of Hire in "seniority" for the new US airways, HP crew is at disadvantage. Specifically, US airways is more than 40+ years old while HP is only 22 years old. Hence, the majority of HP F/A either will be "at the bottom of list" way behind most of US F/As, or ( there is a very strong possibility), end up on the unemployement line after this merger. Is there anyway we could help them, to get out from this predicament?

Get over it. It has already been decided. Date of Hire will stand. I have no sympathy for HP F/As, many of them do not want US F/As to come to their base in Phoenix, yet the ones with high seniority want to transfer to CLT and PHL bases.
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Old Oct 31, 2005, 9:21 am
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Good luck with the merger. Using DOH as the gold standard is just one of many reasons why I don't like unions. Performance should also play a factor.

Having said that, I sincerely hope that Parker and crew continue Above and Beyond as a program to recognize excellent FAs. There are many AWA FAs who provide such friendly and excellent service that are super marketing machines for the company, and they should be rewarded for it. :-: :-: :-:

I also hope that this episode will demonstrate to union employees one of the negatives of unions' approach to the workforce, and that going forward they will accept reasonable discipline for poor service as ........reasonable.

I do have to admire some of the US FAs for putting up with a small but loud minority of pax that are jerks by treating the FAs as personal servants. I've encountered more of these PITAs on US than any other carrier worldwide. Who knows why? I attribute that minority's attitude to akin to being a "Platinum" customer at WalMart. Whoop de doo!
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Old Oct 31, 2005, 10:40 am
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There are certainly downsides to union organization, which most members don't think about in the organization process. They're "sold" security, protection and relative isolation from the actions of management, all seemingly good things -- at the time.

Ironically, in this case, it is quite possible that management would be the HP FA's strongest asset, but they chose some years back to emasculate them, no doubt for seemingly good reasons at the time. Now, for better or worse, their fate is in the hands of the union management, where they chose to place it. I hope it was worth it to them.
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Old Nov 1, 2005, 9:59 am
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Originally Posted by sechs
They made a decision concerning unions... and now they must deal with it.

It's not a matter of right or wrong, but with living with your choice.
Problem is that the "they" who decided to unionize are not the "they" that we have now, and as has been pointed out before, decertifying a union is very hard (and even harder in an industry covered by the Railway Labor Act).

/carmi
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Old Nov 2, 2005, 4:37 pm
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Wink Have you been on a US flight lately?

Originally Posted by gemac
I'm missing something here. I doubt that all US F/As have more than 22 years of service (this would mean that they have hired zero F/As since 1983).
Seriously, I'm not sure they have hired any new F/As since '83, at least based on my recent travel. Even NW seems to have younger cabin crews.

(tongue thoroughly in cheek and apologies to anyone offended)
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Old Nov 3, 2005, 1:35 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by AZ Travels the World
...I hope it was worth it to them.
I have a feeling they would tell you it was worth it.
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Old Nov 3, 2005, 11:41 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by TransWorldOne
I have a feeling they would tell you it was worth it.
At the moment, perhaps, but if this stays on the course it appears it is on, unfortunately I suspect a significant number will ultimately change their mind.
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Old Nov 3, 2005, 3:02 pm
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Originally Posted by gemac
I'm missing something here. I doubt that all US F/As have more than 22 years of service (this would mean that they have hired zero F/As since 1983). I don't expect that the combined entity would lay off all F/As with less than 22 years (I would guess that they would have to lay off 2/3 of all F/As to get there). My guess is that layoffs might catch the last 5 years or less. If that is the case, why should a HP person with, for example, 2 years of service be kept and a US person with 8 years be laid off?

The most junior US flight attendants currently flying were hired in 1998. There are others that are more junior, but are currently on furlough.
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