HP F/As are hurting

Old Sep 6, 2005, 1:20 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Phoenixian
If memory serves correctly, under the Railway Labor Act, once a labor group elects representation by a union they cannot reverse their decision. They must be represented by a union. Perhaps the HP F/A's should reconsider their representation and call for a vote to form an in-house union. This might give them the bargaining power in the acquisition of US they hope for.
Unless there is some special consideration in transportation unions, a labor group can de-certify a union. In other words, vote them out. Just as they voted them in. Goes through the NLRB just as any election It happens once in a while. Not very likely but it is possible.
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Old Sep 6, 2005, 1:29 pm
  #17  
 
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At this point it would be easier to get the DOH removed and allow a more fair integration of seniority. We are under a time crunch here as the merger is within 60 days. We have Doug's backing to protect us AWA employees, but AFA National Pat Friend is the one that is telling him "the unions" will handle seniority not management.
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Old Sep 6, 2005, 4:52 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by AIRBUS GIRL
We have Doug's backing to protect us AWA employees, but AFA National Pat Friend is the one that is telling him "the unions" will handle seniority not management.
she's right-- the RLA says that the unions handle seniority integration. AFA's national board has sole control over the governing policy.
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Old Sep 6, 2005, 6:28 pm
  #19  
 
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Exclamation There's only one way out, and they know what it is...

I could stick my foot in my mouth here, but will refrain from doing so. There is a way around this and they have <60 days to address it, but it would cause a heck of a stink in PHL, I am sure.

Dependent on how strongly the HP employees feel, they could put a kabosh to using DOH as the sole metric for who gets what.

Sorry for being vague, but I am sure that the HP employee leaders are aware of how to do this. I don't want to be accused of taking one side or the other. I hope that the HP employees come out of this positively, but have a feeling they won't as I haven't heard the magic words from the HP employee leaders.
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Old Sep 6, 2005, 7:52 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by martin33
management gets to offer suggestions, but gets no actual role in producing the merged seniority lists. for the pilots, ALPA has criteria established to guide the outcome, only one of which is date of hire. a weighted "dove-tailing" outcome is likely. outside of bidding rights, however, the F/A's are SOL because AFA's hire date rule has no exceptions.
Management has some more flexibility than that. It can simply: (a) can the merger, (b) outsource flight attendants, (c) simply buy the assets and not the workers, and all sorts of other creative things. I am not so sure it is all so one sided. It is all part of a negotiation. All in all, the USAir employees should be thanking GOD for this merger, for without it, they'd be on the street.
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Old Sep 6, 2005, 8:37 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by martin33
management gets to offer suggestions, but gets no actual role in producing the merged seniority lists. for the pilots, ALPA has criteria established to guide the outcome, only one of which is date of hire. a weighted "dove-tailing" outcome is likely. outside of bidding rights, however, the F/A's are SOL because AFA's hire date rule has no exceptions.

While reading http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=awa I came accross the message board which list posting from USair as well as AWA pilots. They seem to have very heated discussion US=yes for DOH while HP== No DOH. There is no talk what so ever about other options. Hence, they integration prosses as much in jeoperty (sp?) as the AWA F/A.

I wonder what KevAz was making vague reference to: as employees option.
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Old Sep 7, 2005, 12:32 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler
Management has some more flexibility than that. It can simply: (a) can the merger, (b) outsource flight attendants, (c) simply buy the assets and not the workers, and all sorts of other creative things.
(a) the seniority integration doesn't happen until the merger closes and merged labor agreements are in place. they could walk away before the deal closes, of course, but it seems unlikely given how keen HP management is on the deal. (b) no, labor contracts don't allow that. (c) not viable--might as well be (a).
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Old Sep 7, 2005, 7:15 am
  #23  
 
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Union Corruption? How Refreshing!

http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...ttendants.html

This article references the website www.union-ethics.com
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Old Sep 7, 2005, 8:39 am
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Originally Posted by Phoenixian

Which is BIG part of the problem - we have NO leadership from our union president.
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Old Sep 7, 2005, 10:03 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by AIRBUS GIRL
Which is BIG part of the problem - we have NO leadership from our union president.
This is why, in the airline arena, a union is not always the answer!

In 1981 I was represented by AFA when President Reagan fired the air traffic controllers; lost my job and no assistance from AFA. Ultimately got out of the business after stints with four airlines (including a 4 month job with HP selling tickets in the produce department of a Smitty's grocery store). Believe me, things could be far worse than adjusted system seniority.
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Old Sep 7, 2005, 1:26 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by KevAZ
I hope that the HP employees come out of this positively, but have a feeling they won't as I haven't heard the magic words from the HP employee leaders.
After reading the article in the Republic this morning and the in-depth details on the union web site, I am convinced that it is too late for AWA FAs. A recall will do nothing for them, they have to take a much larger step and it appears that they are unwilling to do so.

Ah well, that's really sad. There were some truly great FAs that will receive the short end of a stick out of all of this.
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Old Sep 7, 2005, 3:03 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by KevAZ
After reading the article in the Republic this morning and the in-depth details on the union web site, I am convinced that it is too late for AWA FAs. A recall will do nothing for them, they have to take a much larger step and it appears that they are unwilling to do so.
short of decertifying AFA, what can HP f/a's do if the AFA national board is uncooperative?
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Old Sep 7, 2005, 5:53 pm
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Originally Posted by martin33
short of decertifying AFA, what can HP f/a's do if the AFA national board is uncooperative?
BINGO!!!!!!
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Old Sep 9, 2005, 11:45 pm
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They made a decision concerning unions... and now they must deal with it.

It's not a matter of right or wrong, but with living with your choice.
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Old Sep 10, 2005, 11:11 am
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Originally Posted by sechs
They made a decision concerning unions... and now they must deal with it.

It's not a matter of right or wrong, but with living with your choice.
choice of union isn't an irrevocable choice. while it is uncommon, unions do get decertified all the time. UA's mechanics decertified IAM and went with AMFA instead.
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