Any speculation on new routes?

Old Aug 26, 2005, 9:01 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by mallthus
My guess is that we'll see decreased frequency on a lot of RJ routes, rather than a contraction of destinations.

My home airport is Santa Barbara (SBA) and there's 6 departures a day right now (4 PHX and 2 LAS). Most of these are on CRJ900s and they're seldom full. Back when there were 2 less departures a day and the planes were mostly CRJ200s, it was serious sardine time on every flight.

All of that said, RJs make a lot of sense at SBA (and other similar airports like BFL, SBP, MRY) for a couple of reasons:
  • They're too far (more than 100 miles) from "big" airports to make driving to one a viable option based on cost or time.
  • Their isolation decreases competition and thus makes both companies and individuals willing to pay more than might otherwise.

Frankly, on the PIT issue, I think we might see PIT or CLT reborn as a night hub, like LAS. It makes less sense, but it allows them to serve a range of destinations at, with better fleet utilization, lower prices thus appealing to a less schedule driven leisure traveler.
I agree. It's been widely known that HP committed to have Mesa fly the regional jets and increased frequencies in some markets even when it was not really justified. I believe that we will see a decrease of one or two flights in some small markets with 5 or 6 departures. Some markets will go from a CR9 to a CR7 or CRJ. Some of the larger markets may go mainline. Overall, I doubt that we will see the total abandonment of any Western markets (unless there are a handful which are totally unprofitable).
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 9:08 am
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We are keeping our fingers crossed in TUS that we will FINALLY get some mainline back....it will be welcomed!
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 3:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Joeypete
We are keeping our fingers crossed in TUS that we will FINALLY get some mainline back....it will be welcomed!
Actually, I could see TUS being one of those markets where they bring back mainline big time. It's a short turn out of PHX and could easily utilize all mainline equipment (and thereby freeing up possibly 2 whole RJ equivalents).

Last edited by formeraa; Aug 26, 2005 at 3:29 pm
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 4:00 pm
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Originally Posted by mallthus
I think we might see PIT or CLT reborn as a night hub, like LAS.

CLT being reborn as a night hub? I think you may be confusing CLT and thinking of it as an "abandoned hub," like PIT. CLT, to the contrary, is US's largest hub with nearly 600 daily flights. CLT has recently seen major service increases, as US has added almost 100 daily flights over the past year. PIT is the real ghost town in the US network; I agree that it could possibly be reborn into a night hub, similiar to LAS. The only thing I can think of that would not make that viable is the fact that there is little tourism to the PIT area, unlike LAS.
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 5:32 pm
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I don't see CLT being shrunk a lot. It is a big airport with lots of connections through the SE. I am sure there are some unprofitable routs but right now almost every domestic route is unprofitable with the cost of fuel. US has done a lot of trimming during bankruptcy. After 9/11, a lot of mid-size cities lost mainline service but the RJ have been flying pretty full out of places like ROA, BNA, etc. These pax are needed to fill flights to larger cities.

Remember CLT has more people that ATL in the incorporated city. People in the west think of it as a small place. It is the home to some of the largest banks and hundreds of other firms. The SE is filled with plants for international corporations. PHL can not handle all of the traffic for the east coast.

And PIT folks - its over for that city. Excellent airport - too close to the big city of PHL.
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 8:27 pm
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Originally Posted by mallthus

Frankly, on the PIT issue, I think we might see PIT or CLT reborn as a night hub, like LAS. It makes less sense, but it allows them to serve a range of destinations at, with better fleet utilization, lower prices thus appealing to a less schedule driven leisure traveler.
There is a reason why LAS has a successful night operation. Its Las Vegas. What is in PIT? What is in CLT? Neither of these cities, nor anywhere else across America, has a night life like Las Vegas where you can command a full hub operation in the middle of the night.

CLT is not going anywhere right now, but it is on the bubble, and has a lot of sunk cost investment. It needs to produce some good numbers and flow through traffic. PIT is history. It will be served, but thats it.
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Old Aug 27, 2005, 1:48 am
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler
There is a reason why LAS has a successful night operation. Its Las Vegas. What is in PIT? What is in CLT? Neither of these cities, nor anywhere else across America, has a night life like Las Vegas where you can command a full hub operation in the middle of the night.

CLT is not going anywhere right now, but it is on the bubble, and has a lot of sunk cost investment. It needs to produce some good numbers and flow through traffic. PIT is history. It will be served, but thats it.
would-be eastern midnight hubs lack not just the "nightlife" of LAS, they lack the favorable timezone positioning. LAS can send flights eastward for dawn arrivals, and westward/southward/northward for 1am-ish arrivals. if you tried that from PIT you'd get landings at 3-4am for westward flights. if you moved the bank later to make dawn arrivals westerly, you'd lose the northward/southward/eastward possibilities.
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Old Aug 27, 2005, 10:17 am
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Originally Posted by formeraa
Actually, I could see TUS being one of those markets where they bring back mainline big time. It's a short turn out of PHX and could easily utilize all mainline equipment (and thereby freeing up possibly 2 whole RJ equivalents).
Yes we were thinking the same thing. We have heard nothing as of yet about even our new flight numbers....should be coming out soon I would think. We have to load them in our airport FIDS.
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Old Aug 27, 2005, 1:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Joeypete
Yes we were thinking the same thing. We have heard nothing as of yet about even our new flight numbers....should be coming out soon I would think. We have to load them in our airport FIDS.

I would love to see mainline direct service from TUS-PHL even on wooden HP seats.
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Old Aug 27, 2005, 3:04 pm
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Originally Posted by 21D
I would love to see mainline direct service from TUS-PHL even on wooden HP seats.
Yes that would be awesome.....it could very well happen actually. Wooden? I don't get it....
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Old Aug 27, 2005, 5:06 pm
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Originally Posted by Joeypete
Yes that would be awesome.....it could very well happen actually. Wooden? I don't get it....
I could definitely see pairing of medium-sized markets to serve PHL. For example, a direct TUS-SAT-PHL (keeping the SAT stop as short as possible).
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Old Aug 27, 2005, 9:09 pm
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Originally Posted by formeraa
I could definitely see pairing of medium-sized markets to serve PHL. For example, a direct TUS-SAT-PHL (keeping the SAT stop as short as possible).
AA has a few like that from TUS. They stop in Dallas and then go on. PIT and TPA I think. Contnental runs a 737 red eye non stop to Newark so there must be freight/postal biz also.

If you have no personal backside padding the HP seats are the worst to sit in (feels like wood) . The exitrows are even worse.
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Old Aug 27, 2005, 11:15 pm
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Originally Posted by 21D
AA has a few like that from TUS. They stop in Dallas and then go on. PIT and TPA I think. Contnental runs a 737 red eye non stop to Newark so there must be freight/postal biz also.

If you have no personal backside padding the HP seats are the worst to sit in (feels like wood) . The exitrows are even worse.
Oh i get it now..lol..duh. I never noticed that our seats were uncomfortable...always had a pleasant time. I found CO's seats to be pretty bad.

The red-eye to EWR stopped back in April. It pretty much tanked...very full loads in the end but the yield wasn't very good apparantley. No word yet if it will come back this winter.

There are definetly possibilities for point to point service out of TUS....of course the most obvious is SNA....we had sooo much traffic going there, they really should put in a couple flights.
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Old Aug 28, 2005, 1:03 pm
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Originally Posted by Joeypete
Oh i get it now..lol..duh. I never noticed that our seats were uncomfortable...always had a pleasant time. I found CO's seats to be pretty bad.
CO's seats are the worst. Thank goodness that I am in Phoenix now and don't fly to the East.
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 8:48 am
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From, not to...

Originally Posted by GotCalcio4
I agree that it could possibly be reborn into a night hub, similar to LAS. The only thing I can think of that would not make that viable is the fact that there is little tourism to the PIT area, unlike LAS.
Actually, I agree. I was thinking of traffic from PIT. For a budget focused leisure traveler, the catchment area can be bigger, so even some of the Cleveland/Akron area could be considered in the catchment area.

And not necessarily focused on East/West traffic, but on North/South traffic such as Florida and Gulf Coast services.

Worst case, we'll probably see one stop service out of PIT to all of the system, as I can imagine that all remaining hubs will have regular schedules to/from PIT (PIT-PHL, PIT-CLT, PIT-PHX, PIT-LAS). Of course, it's sure not any sort of hub at these service levels. This would mirror what HP did when they closed down CMH as a hub. They retained service to both PHX and LAS.

As has been said, PIT is a very nice airport with an unfortunate location.
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