Shouldn't they know better?

Old Jul 18, 05, 12:54 pm
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Shouldn't they know better?

Ok-I took yesterday with a grain of salt...but...
Flew LAS-SEA on the 2pm flight. Took over 3 hours of sitting on the tarmak to finally leave. 2 mechanical delays and then the winds shifts and the plane is too heavy to make it over the mountains on take off...really good feeling there...so we needed more people to give up their seats and take other flights. The thing that really iks me more than sitting there for 3 hours with only one water service and no A/C, thoughout the wait, is the fact that I would be lead to believe that if America West flies out of LAS daily (fact) and year round (fact) on the same planes (fact) and in extreme heat (fact) they should know that if the plane has X number of people and it has to take off over the mountains it isn't going to make it! Take more people off or fly different planes! Errrg.
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Old Jul 18, 05, 1:20 pm
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That sounds horrible...but, wasn't it 114 degress yesterday in LAS? You mean that you sat on the tarmac for 3 hours with NO a/c whatsoever.....?
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Old Jul 18, 05, 1:41 pm
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There is hot and there is REALLY hot. 115 degrees is not the same as 104, which would be more typical for LV this time of year (115 is quite unusual for LV). I sympathize with your predicament, but I can't really blame HP for the near record temps any more than I can blame an airline in winter for long waits to have the plane de-iced. Planes just don't funtion as well above a certain temp, I'm not sure what HP or any other airline could have done.
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Old Jul 18, 05, 1:45 pm
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you got it! Do you think that I should write to them?
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Old Jul 18, 05, 1:47 pm
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Exclamation

Having worked in the Air Express business for 15 years I can tell you that we knew what packages would go on the plane and what wouldn't before we loaded the containers. We found the passenger lines to be close to clueless on this right up to the departure time. I've always written it off to a different focus, but really this is simple math and they should know before people show up to the airport...... send an SMS message or make an outbound call - "we're bumping you from this flight due to weight restrictions"

Of course, here's the touchy part: do you bump one rev customer that weighs 350 or two 175 pounders? I wouldn't want to be engaged in that conversation!
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Old Jul 18, 05, 1:50 pm
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Originally Posted by ibdsux
There is hot and there is REALLY hot. 115 degrees is not the same as 104, which would be more typical for LV this time of year (115 is quite unusual for LV). I sympathize with your predicament, but I can't really blame HP for the near record temps any more than I can blame an airline in winter for long waits to have the plane de-iced. Planes just don't funtion as well above a certain temp, I'm not sure what HP or any other airline could have done.
Did you read the portion on two (2) mechanical problems while waiting on the tarmac?
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Old Jul 18, 05, 2:05 pm
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I'm sorry to doubt you, but I do not believe that (even with the doors of the a/c OPEN, that you sat on the tarmac for 3 hrs without any sort of air. You may have sat at the gate for that long, but I'm certain there was air. If you did sit on the tarmac that long, what was the reason they could (or would) not return to the gate?

If you are still upset, sure, write HP. You may get a voucher or something for $50.
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Old Jul 18, 05, 2:41 pm
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Exclamation Too hot at LAS

Just a couple of thoughts
The all time record temperature was equaled yesterday at LAS. 116 Degrees
LAS is at about 2000 Ft.

Here is a quote out of a flight manual.

"At airports of higher elevations, such as those in the Western United States, high temperatures sometimes have such an effect on density altitude that safe operations are impossible. In such conditions, operations between midmorning and mid-afternoon can become extremely hazardous. Even at lower elevations, aircraft performance can become marginal and it may be necessary to reduce aircraft gross weight for safe operations."

I think you were lucky the flight did not get cancelled.
Many flights went back to the gates for weight reduction yesterday.
I would be kind to HP on this one.

bltserv
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Old Jul 18, 05, 3:26 pm
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LAS had a few problems yesterday
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../26900177.html
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Old Jul 18, 05, 3:40 pm
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Yucky. I think the point that might be missing is that we were sitting in the plane with air going, although the air was just that. There was never any A/C going so we were just pushing around heated air.
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Old Jul 18, 05, 4:29 pm
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At the time the flight was scheduled, the denity altitude may have allowed the number of passengers to go.

But if due to mechanical delays, the time went by and it got hotter (late afternoon being the hottest part of the day) the denisty altitude rose meaning that the new calculations forced a lower takeoff weight.

So they may have had everything calculated for the original flight, but the higher than usual temps and time delay may have forced them to reevaluate the flight.....
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Old Jul 18, 05, 9:10 pm
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Hi venice!

Yesterday, I, too, flew into and out of LAS.
RNO-LAS-ORD. It was scheduled as a thru flgiht, but we had to a/c swap in LAS from a B gate to an A gate.
There was no air conditioning functioning in the terminal. I believe that was due to rehab construction. It was SUPER HOT at our ORD gate.
In addition, there was something up with w/the runway assignments yesterday.
On our inbound from RNO, there was a last minute runway change to a short runway.
This affected the allowed weight on our ORD flt. Pax load was restricted to 98. This was a last minute change, and there was already more than 120 checked in.
The gate discontinued boarding as soon as they were notified.
Some groups were split, with some already onboard and some still in the gate area.
We left about 30 angry pax behind when we finally were able to depart, after soliciting for volunteers to get off the plane.
It was really quite a fisasco. Not a good day.

Does anyone remember the day a few years ago when PHX reached 122 degrees?
The a/c are only certified to 120*, so they had to divert and wait for the temp to come down in the evening.
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Old Jul 18, 05, 9:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Lifer
Hi venice!
Does anyone remember the day a few years ago when PHX reached 122 degrees?
The a/c are only certified to 120*, so they had to divert and wait for the temp to come down in the evening.
Actually, their takeoff/landing charts only went to 120 for the specifications, and they were grounded for a few hours until Boeing (just Boeing at the time!) sent some new charts that I think go up tp 130-140 now.
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Old Jul 18, 05, 9:38 pm
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Old Jul 18, 05, 10:37 pm
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While I sympathize with your delay, it has been HOTTER than H*LL in LAS and PHX. 8 people have died down here in PHX due to the heat. 400 people are enduring a second night without A/C.

Be glad that you got safely to your destination and eventually got A/C!
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