HP/US in talks with AC
AC in T4?
May 23, 2005, 4:16 pm
#17
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: YHM
Programs: AC, US
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by ByrdluvsAWACO
So this makes me wonder if AC will move over to the intl concourse in T4.
May 24, 2005, 12:21 am
#19
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 9,794
Originally Posted by PunishedEdmontonian
Who-a-a...wait until the AC apologists see this thread!
Although no fan of AC, it is apparent to me you have
limited knowledge about Canada and before you post
you ought to check some facts.
Firstly, AC is not losing all that much $$ anymore since
they emerged from protection under the Canadian
Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act (somewhat aking
to part of the US Bankruptcy Code).
Although no fan of AC, it is apparent to me you have
limited knowledge about Canada and before you post
you ought to check some facts.
Firstly, AC is not losing all that much $$ anymore since
they emerged from protection under the Canadian
Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act (somewhat aking
to part of the US Bankruptcy Code).
market - - if you'll notice what I wrote...
AC is still doing reasonably well in the international
market. I understand it is 2/3rd's of their revenue.
I hesitate to say 'profit' - - because AC rarely has
any 'profit'.
I quote from above: "....AC is not losing all that much
$$ anymore...."
- - -
Originally Posted by PunishedEdmontonian
Secondly, WestJet, which I will fly way before AC, is still
not the dominant Canadian domestic carrier - AC still is
by far and away.
not the dominant Canadian domestic carrier - AC still is
by far and away.
is an LCC (and AC is not).
WJ may *become* dominant in Canada because of this
(as well as its legendary, empowered workforce).
- - -
Originally Posted by PunishedEdmontonian
Finally, and this is really incredible to me that you don't
know this, cabotage is not permitted in Canada
nor is it permitted in the US so there is a snow ball's
chance in hell that HP/AS could take on WestJet in
the Canadian domestic market.
know this, cabotage is not permitted in Canada
nor is it permitted in the US so there is a snow ball's
chance in hell that HP/AS could take on WestJet in
the Canadian domestic market.
company not allowed to use its business model and
low cost methods in the Canadian market?
The root question is: Would the combined airline be
a 'Canadian' ailine (able to operate wholly in Canada),
or an 'American' airline (not being able to do so)? Or
both?...
I don't think the lawmakers anticipated this situation...
.
May 24, 2005, 10:34 am
#20
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Originally Posted by IJK
. . .If HP/US merge with AC, then why is the combined
company not allowed to use its business model and
low cost methods in the Canadian market?
The root question is: Would the combined airline be
a 'Canadian' ailine (able to operate wholly in Canada),
or an 'American' airline (not being able to do so)? Or
both?...
I don't think the lawmakers anticipated this situation...
company not allowed to use its business model and
low cost methods in the Canadian market?
The root question is: Would the combined airline be
a 'Canadian' ailine (able to operate wholly in Canada),
or an 'American' airline (not being able to do so)? Or
both?...
I don't think the lawmakers anticipated this situation...
HP is effectively taking over US (though retaining the US brand), in what they are calling a "merger." The parent company of AC is one of several companies providing money to help re-capitalize the new US, in exchange for a contract to provide aircraft maintenance services.
This will make AC's parent an investor in, and supplier to, the new US, not part of the new airline.
May 24, 2005, 9:25 pm
#21
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 9,794
Originally Posted by AZ Travels the World
Is this purely a hypothetical question? It's not an issue in
the current deal, as AC is not being merged into anything.
HP is effectively taking over US (though retaining the US
brand), in what they are calling a "merger." The parent
company of AC is one of several companies providing money
to help re-capitalize the new US, in exchange for a contract
to provide aircraft maintenance services.
This will make AC's parent an investor in, and supplier to, the
new US, not part of the new airline.
the current deal, as AC is not being merged into anything.
HP is effectively taking over US (though retaining the US
brand), in what they are calling a "merger." The parent
company of AC is one of several companies providing money
to help re-capitalize the new US, in exchange for a contract
to provide aircraft maintenance services.
This will make AC's parent an investor in, and supplier to, the
new US, not part of the new airline.
'other' merger or deal w/ AC may be yet something else again...
The "new" arline (HP / US) may have some investment from
the parent of AC - - but any further involvement, alliance,
or co-operation with AC would be a matter of great interest...
.
May 25, 2005, 8:11 am
#22
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Originally Posted by IJK
Well, the "current" deal is one thing, but the talks about the
'other' merger or deal w/ AC may be yet something else again...
The "new" arline (HP / US) may have some investment from
the parent of AC - - but any further involvement, alliance,
or co-operation with AC would be a matter of great interest...
'other' merger or deal w/ AC may be yet something else again...
The "new" arline (HP / US) may have some investment from
the parent of AC - - but any further involvement, alliance,
or co-operation with AC would be a matter of great interest...
May 25, 2005, 9:20 am
#23
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 9,794
Originally Posted by AZ Travels the World
That would definitely be something else again.
What "'other' merger or deal w/ AC" are you
referring to? It seems I've missed something.
What "'other' merger or deal w/ AC" are you
referring to? It seems I've missed something.
"He also didn't dismiss speculation brewing on Wall Street
that Air Canada may be involved in coming months in a
merger, possibly with regional airline America West Airlines,
which has confirmed merger talks with U.S. Airways."
.
May 25, 2005, 11:58 am
#24
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: HPN
Posts: 777
Well, a 'merger' per se is unlikely to happen due to anti-cabotage laws. What's more likely is that each carrier makes an investment in the other up to the maximum legally permitted, and they agree to 'appear' to be one airline while really being two (merging marketing, FFPs, websites, customer service, etc.).
So for marketing purposes you would have an airline called 'Star North America' (or something similar) but each flight would be operated by either 'Star US' or 'Star Canada'.
The part that intrigues me is the concept of AC operating HP/US's intercontinental routes. Somebody's going to have to educate me about what fifth freedom really means and whether they can pull this off.
Up to this point we've seen 'two airlines in one' often enough (AA-TW recently, and of course HP-US itself to come) but it's always been a transitional state under a single corporate parentage. Whether keeping two airlines in one on a long-term basis, with the difference that they actually have separate shareholder groups to report to, really works will be an issue for the future -- but it has worked (if a little clumsily) in other industries (Shell oil being the most obvious example) so maybe it can work here.
So for marketing purposes you would have an airline called 'Star North America' (or something similar) but each flight would be operated by either 'Star US' or 'Star Canada'.
The part that intrigues me is the concept of AC operating HP/US's intercontinental routes. Somebody's going to have to educate me about what fifth freedom really means and whether they can pull this off.
Up to this point we've seen 'two airlines in one' often enough (AA-TW recently, and of course HP-US itself to come) but it's always been a transitional state under a single corporate parentage. Whether keeping two airlines in one on a long-term basis, with the difference that they actually have separate shareholder groups to report to, really works will be an issue for the future -- but it has worked (if a little clumsily) in other industries (Shell oil being the most obvious example) so maybe it can work here.
May 25, 2005, 4:34 pm
#25
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Originally Posted by IJK
Did you read the article in the priginal post?
"He also didn't dismiss speculation brewing on Wall Street
that Air Canada may be involved in coming months in a
merger, possibly with regional airline America West Airlines,
which has confirmed merger talks with U.S. Airways."
.
"He also didn't dismiss speculation brewing on Wall Street
that Air Canada may be involved in coming months in a
merger, possibly with regional airline America West Airlines,
which has confirmed merger talks with U.S. Airways."
.
Since the subsequent announcement clarified AC's involvement, I thought that addressed the "speculation brewing on Wall Street." In other words, I thought this was new info or speculation. It's not. Sorry for the confusion.