Forced to gate check carry-ons then hit with a $600 excess baggage fee!
Jan 22, 2020, 2:07 pm
#121
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That's not going to work. If there isn't OH space, there isn't OH space and the GA's aren't going to budge.
Gate-checking bags is common in this situation worldwide. It is relatively unique that an onwards carrier goes to the effort of reviewing the manifest and PNR notes looking for fees to collect.
Gate-checking bags is common in this situation worldwide. It is relatively unique that an onwards carrier goes to the effort of reviewing the manifest and PNR notes looking for fees to collect.
Jan 22, 2020, 2:14 pm
#122
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Not going to happen. NH handled this as a simple add/collect. It is shoddy, but perfectly "legal".
Checking carry ons is the problem here. In the ordinary course, if the passengers had voluntarily checked in three bags each, they would have each paid $200 to AC at check-in and that would have been the end of it. But, they only checked two bags and were then required to check in a carry on. AC does not charge for that (no carrier does). This leaves an add/collect which NH chose to collect while most carriers would never even find it or do anything about it if they did.
Bear in mind that this is a manual hassle for NH and thus part of a conscious effort, not some mistaken approach.
Checking carry ons is the problem here. In the ordinary course, if the passengers had voluntarily checked in three bags each, they would have each paid $200 to AC at check-in and that would have been the end of it. But, they only checked two bags and were then required to check in a carry on. AC does not charge for that (no carrier does). This leaves an add/collect which NH chose to collect while most carriers would never even find it or do anything about it if they did.
Bear in mind that this is a manual hassle for NH and thus part of a conscious effort, not some mistaken approach.
Jan 22, 2020, 3:07 pm
#123
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Jan 22, 2020, 3:11 pm
#124
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Jan 22, 2020, 4:02 pm
#125
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We're not talking about experienced flyers in either of the two reported cases. Most people don't argue or, if they do argue, don't make much headway.
We also have no idea whether the carryons were compliant in the first place.
Bottom line is that this cries out for an institutional process resolution rather than depending on individual travelers to understand the intricacies of the system.
We also have no idea whether the carryons were compliant in the first place.
Bottom line is that this cries out for an institutional process resolution rather than depending on individual travelers to understand the intricacies of the system.
Jan 22, 2020, 4:53 pm
#126
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We're not talking about experienced flyers in either of the two reported cases. Most people don't argue or, if they do argue, don't make much headway.
We also have no idea whether the carryons were compliant in the first place.
Bottom line is that this cries out for an institutional process resolution rather than depending on individual travelers to understand the intricacies of the system.
We also have no idea whether the carryons were compliant in the first place.
Bottom line is that this cries out for an institutional process resolution rather than depending on individual travelers to understand the intricacies of the system.
Jan 22, 2020, 5:06 pm
#127
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Just a thought....perhaps ANA might somehow be indirectly discriminating against passengers of a certain ethnic background travelling to their home country? Just from observation, passengers from this background tend to maximize their baggage allowance by using cardboard boxes. These boxes are normally filled up with goodies (eg. from a Costco shopping spree) they are bringing home to their family and relatives. This leaves very little room for them to pack their own belongings which results in large and overstuffed carry-on bags.
It could be the case that some of these people would then try to game the system (to avoid excess baggage fees) by gate checking their carry-on bags from a connecting city of another airline, or even a overly helpful gate agent of the same ethnic background thinking that they are helping their fellow countrymen by letting them gate check their large carry-on bags to the final destination.
Due to past abuse, ANA probably caught on to this and started going through the manifest looking for passengers travelling to a certain destination to see if they have excess bags.
It could be the case that some of these people would then try to game the system (to avoid excess baggage fees) by gate checking their carry-on bags from a connecting city of another airline, or even a overly helpful gate agent of the same ethnic background thinking that they are helping their fellow countrymen by letting them gate check their large carry-on bags to the final destination.
Due to past abuse, ANA probably caught on to this and started going through the manifest looking for passengers travelling to a certain destination to see if they have excess bags.
Jan 22, 2020, 7:38 pm
#128
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This is the essence of the issue. It is simply not stated well in the OP.
The passengers had six checked bags and some number of carryons when they checked in with AC. The checked bags were within the combined allowance. For whatever reason, AC could not accommodate the carryons and the family was asked / required to check their carryons. Those are checked to the final destination as this was a connection.
That brought the checked luggage to 9 bags for 3 people, causing an extra bag fee of $200 per bag by NH at YVR. The family was unable to pay the fee and the bags could not be offloaded and simply left (per whatever YVR security is in this situation) and thus one passenger stayed behind and was rebooked later.
The entire mess is caused by NH requiring the payment for the 3 gate-checked bags. While it is poor practice, rare across tickets anywhere in the world, and particularly heartless given that the extra bags were forced at the gate, that doesn't change NH's ability to enforce the rules and it chose to do so.
As this is the second time in a few weeks that this has occurred, it will take AC taking special care when it gate checks bags of passengers making NH connections. By way of example, it does have the capacity to return bags at the arrival gate (as it does with strollers and medical equiptment). It could also look to other passengers.
But, NH is apparently dead set on this and, short of changing the rules, isn't going to adapt.
The passengers had six checked bags and some number of carryons when they checked in with AC. The checked bags were within the combined allowance. For whatever reason, AC could not accommodate the carryons and the family was asked / required to check their carryons. Those are checked to the final destination as this was a connection.
That brought the checked luggage to 9 bags for 3 people, causing an extra bag fee of $200 per bag by NH at YVR. The family was unable to pay the fee and the bags could not be offloaded and simply left (per whatever YVR security is in this situation) and thus one passenger stayed behind and was rebooked later.
The entire mess is caused by NH requiring the payment for the 3 gate-checked bags. While it is poor practice, rare across tickets anywhere in the world, and particularly heartless given that the extra bags were forced at the gate, that doesn't change NH's ability to enforce the rules and it chose to do so.
As this is the second time in a few weeks that this has occurred, it will take AC taking special care when it gate checks bags of passengers making NH connections. By way of example, it does have the capacity to return bags at the arrival gate (as it does with strollers and medical equiptment). It could also look to other passengers.
But, NH is apparently dead set on this and, short of changing the rules, isn't going to adapt.
Jan 24, 2020, 1:24 am
#129
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Every time I've heard a GA ask for pax to check bags, they specify that bags would be checked to the final destination free of charge. Thanks to this thread, I know that if I'm ever required to check an interline bag in such a situation, I will ask for them to put it in writing. That should provide sufficient recourse if I'm asked to pay by a later airline.
Mar 27, 2020, 4:50 pm
#130
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CTA Response to Complaint
After months of exchanging emails and correspondence with the CTA, they have finally come to a conclusion. As expected, I knew it wasn't going to head the way I thought it might would.
Dear xxxxxx,This is further to your air travel complaint case number ##-##### filed with the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) about the difficulties you encountered with All Nippon Airways on July 21st 2019. Please find below the outcome of my review.
The Agency’s role in the facilitation of an air travel complaint is to assess whether the air carrier would appear to have met its obligations as outlined in the contract of carriage (tariff), as well as any applicable legislation.
In the context of your complaint, it would appear that your issue relates to excess baggage charges you incurred in Vancouver airport of $600 due to three pieces of carry on that were asked to be checked at Calgary Airport by Air Canada.
I have reviewed All Nippon Airways international tariff concerning the baggage allowance and the excess baggage, and as per rule 115 – Baggage, it states:
(C)(2) (f) ... NH will not accept as checked baggage, the baggage tendered for carriage, for any sector in respect to which the passenger does not pay all applicable charges.
(E) Free baggage allowance (Ticket issue on/after February 16, 2015) part 2
(1) (c) A passenger paying an economy class fare shall receive a free checked baggage allowance of two pieces of baggage the weight of each piece of which shall not exceed 23 kilograms (50 pounds); […];
(G) Excess baggage
(1) Baggage in excess of the free baggage allowance set forth in sub-paragraph (1) of paragraph (E) of this article shall be subject to the applicable excess baggage charge at each checked point.
(2) Unless NH otherwise agrees in advance with a passenger, NH may carry the passenger's baggage which is in excess of the applicable free baggage allowance on any other flight or by any other transportation service.
While you express your concerns with that you believe to be misleading information about the checked-in baggage process when the baggage was to be checked-in to accommodate Air Canada, please be advised that ANA has informed that as an operating carrier for one segment of the whole trip, Air Canada has no authority by regulation, and no permission from ANA, to waive applicable excess baggage fees for onward ANA international flights. The carrier also mentions the rule 115(C)(2)(f), which indicates “...NH will not accept as checked baggage, the baggage tendered for carriage, for any sector in respect to which the passenger does not pay all applicable charges.”. All Nippon Airways then indicates that its position remains unchanged.
Therefore, it would appear that ANA has met its obligations as noted in its terms and conditions of carriage when they collected the excess baggage fee since 3 passengers had checked more than the free baggage allowance set on their contract of carriage.
Although you maintain the position of the carrier did not advise you of the charges of excess baggage you would have incurred on July 21st 2019, the carrier is not obligated to refund the fees of excess baggage by accepting carry-ons to be checked at the first checking point in Calgary airport. For the reasons listed above, it would appear that All Nippon Airways has met its obligations as noted in its terms and conditions of carriage when charging you for three pieces excess baggage $200 each.
Consequently, All Nippon Airways position remains unchanged and we are unable to resolve your complaint through facilitation.
Should you have any questions on the above, please contact me directly.
Thank you for bringing your concerns to the Agency’s attention.
Dear xxxxxx,This is further to your air travel complaint case number ##-##### filed with the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) about the difficulties you encountered with All Nippon Airways on July 21st 2019. Please find below the outcome of my review.
The Agency’s role in the facilitation of an air travel complaint is to assess whether the air carrier would appear to have met its obligations as outlined in the contract of carriage (tariff), as well as any applicable legislation.
In the context of your complaint, it would appear that your issue relates to excess baggage charges you incurred in Vancouver airport of $600 due to three pieces of carry on that were asked to be checked at Calgary Airport by Air Canada.
I have reviewed All Nippon Airways international tariff concerning the baggage allowance and the excess baggage, and as per rule 115 – Baggage, it states:
(C)(2) (f) ... NH will not accept as checked baggage, the baggage tendered for carriage, for any sector in respect to which the passenger does not pay all applicable charges.
(E) Free baggage allowance (Ticket issue on/after February 16, 2015) part 2
(1) (c) A passenger paying an economy class fare shall receive a free checked baggage allowance of two pieces of baggage the weight of each piece of which shall not exceed 23 kilograms (50 pounds); […];
(G) Excess baggage
(1) Baggage in excess of the free baggage allowance set forth in sub-paragraph (1) of paragraph (E) of this article shall be subject to the applicable excess baggage charge at each checked point.
(2) Unless NH otherwise agrees in advance with a passenger, NH may carry the passenger's baggage which is in excess of the applicable free baggage allowance on any other flight or by any other transportation service.
While you express your concerns with that you believe to be misleading information about the checked-in baggage process when the baggage was to be checked-in to accommodate Air Canada, please be advised that ANA has informed that as an operating carrier for one segment of the whole trip, Air Canada has no authority by regulation, and no permission from ANA, to waive applicable excess baggage fees for onward ANA international flights. The carrier also mentions the rule 115(C)(2)(f), which indicates “...NH will not accept as checked baggage, the baggage tendered for carriage, for any sector in respect to which the passenger does not pay all applicable charges.”. All Nippon Airways then indicates that its position remains unchanged.
Therefore, it would appear that ANA has met its obligations as noted in its terms and conditions of carriage when they collected the excess baggage fee since 3 passengers had checked more than the free baggage allowance set on their contract of carriage.
Although you maintain the position of the carrier did not advise you of the charges of excess baggage you would have incurred on July 21st 2019, the carrier is not obligated to refund the fees of excess baggage by accepting carry-ons to be checked at the first checking point in Calgary airport. For the reasons listed above, it would appear that All Nippon Airways has met its obligations as noted in its terms and conditions of carriage when charging you for three pieces excess baggage $200 each.
Consequently, All Nippon Airways position remains unchanged and we are unable to resolve your complaint through facilitation.
Should you have any questions on the above, please contact me directly.
Thank you for bringing your concerns to the Agency’s attention.
Mar 27, 2020, 7:36 pm
#132
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Disappointing from both NH and CTA here and a real loss for the interests of consumer protection. It's not logical at all to focus only on the letter of the CoC in the context of what happened, rather than what would or should have happened had consumer not been forced to check bags by AC.
I'm generally a fan of NH but stories like this make me quite wary of patronizing them.
I'm generally a fan of NH but stories like this make me quite wary of patronizing them.
Mar 27, 2020, 8:25 pm
#133
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They should either have charged the fee, only gate checked to the end of the Air Canada flight, or have confirmed with NH that they could waive the fee. I fully blame the Air Canada gate agent here.