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-   -   Forced to gate check carry-ons then hit with a $600 excess baggage fee! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/all-nippon-airways-ana-mileage-club/1991206-forced-gate-check-carry-ons-then-hit-600-excess-baggage-fee.html)

canadiancow Jan 21, 20 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by LesDorgo (Post 31978101)
on your aeroplan booking email it says how many bags you get for each leg. can you post that photo?
and i would use that as proof that you should have been able to take the bags.

Read the post.

That's completely inaccurate and besides the point.

whatchamackallit03 Jan 21, 20 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 31975474)
Seems the issue is with ANA?

Why couldn't the luggage go back to carry on BTW?

Otherwise, why not paying and then arguing with AC/Aeroplan later?

This said, it seems very possible that the rules actually were in ANA's favor. But then we get into the more complicated issue of which rules apply in this sort of connections and what if the airlines which checked the luggage did in realtion to these rules. Anyway, issue itself does not sound very clear.

If it was an option, I would very much take that but it isnít. Itís either you pay or be denied boarding.

Unfortunately, my parents are in raised in a culture that doesnít believe in credit card and was sticking to this belief. So they only have cash in PhP. Theyíre not taking cash as payment. I offered to pay via phone, they wonít take it. So thereís no way to pay.



So we ended up offloading the bag and have my brother stay to attend to the bags since as per YVR security, bags arenít allowed to be unattended for security reasons.




Originally Posted by warakorn (Post 31975873)
YVR Security? Really? They just walked up to the gate.
Something doesn't make sense here.



I guess this is a real denied boarding situation. ANA needs to pay up.
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/denied-boarding-a-guide[h3]



Airport security? Baggage Agents? I am just taking this from my brotherís recollection of events. I was in YWG area communicating over the phone.

I am inclined to go this route Ė denied boarding. Anyone went through this? Iíve never done this before and would appreciate some insights. But also, would this qualify for this?

Appreciate all your inputs.

canadiancow Jan 21, 20 2:45 pm


Originally Posted by whatchamackallit03 (Post 31978418)
I am inclined to go this route Ė denied boarding. Anyone went through this? Iíve never done this before and would appreciate some insights. But also, would this qualify for this?

No, it would not qualify. It was not a denial due to overbooking.

whatchamackallit03 Jan 21, 20 2:55 pm


Originally Posted by D582 (Post 31975843)
A few thoughts on this:

1. If carrier A accepts baggage and through checks it in the same ticket to carrier B, carrier B is supposed to just accept it, even if itís excess pieces. If carrier B wants itís pound of flesh then they should settle this with carrier Aís accounting department. To extort the passenger like this at the gate is simply wrong.



I agree and thatís what I thought as well. When we checked in in YWG and the agent tagged it to final destination, Iím like, oh great. It would be all the way through the final destination. But, that wasnít the case. :/



Originally Posted by D582 (Post 31975843)
2. If the through check was across different tickets on same PNR or different PNR, then carrier B has more of an argument to ask for payment, but again they should settle this with carrier A internally.

And itís the same PNR as per photo attached. Aeroplan Reward booking for party of 3.




Originally Posted by D582 (Post 31975843)
3. I wonder when AC DCS goes to Amadeus (which NH also uses) if this would have generated some message to AC about bag charges (and perhaps some way of acknowledging they accept the charges so NH doesnít see them as unpaid).


Pretty par for the course for most Japanese organisations in my experience. Rigid rules and processes and cannot deal with logic, reason and rationality when there is an exception. But the food.... :cool:

Do you think the new Amadeus reservation got something to do with this?

whatchamackallit03 Jan 21, 20 2:58 pm


Originally Posted by Splendiz (Post 31976238)
I would have paid the fee with a credit card and then claimed it back with the evidence provided after the trip.



Originally Posted by mapleg (Post 31976506)
Is it really denied boarding? Passenger would have boarded easily if luggage fee had been paid to ANA.

I really wish this was an option.

whatchamackallit03 Jan 21, 20 3:00 pm


Originally Posted by warakorn (Post 31977397)
It's a denied boarding situation, because the pax requested ANA to release the bags.
After the release the claim of ANA is exactly CAD 0, hence, the pax are not liable to pay the luggage fee.
Nonetheless (as I follow the OP text) ANA denied one passenger boarding.

As they has not been any issue with the plane (safety), this denied boarding situation is fully within the control of the airline.
Hence, ANA has to pay up CAD 2.400 in compensation + possibly a full ticket refund/free rebooking.


Originally Posted by canadiancow (Post 31977431)
Denied boarding compensation from those regulations only applies if it was due to overbooking.


Originally Posted by canadiancow (Post 31978424)
No, it would not qualify. It was not a denial due to overbooking.



So which one is it? I never have to deal with this issue before.

ChrisA330 Jan 21, 20 3:02 pm


Originally Posted by whatchamackallit03 (Post 31978478)

So which one is it? I never have to deal with this issue before.

The regs are here: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/air-passen...ons-highlights

The Denied Boarding section is specific to overbooking only.

whatchamackallit03 Jan 21, 20 3:11 pm

Another thing worth mentioning is how it was handled by Aeroplan, Air Canada and ANA.



ANA : I was able to talk to the Gate Manager and she explained me the situation but still ended up denying the boarding of my brother as this was the most salient option due to the baggage situation.



Air Canada: Initially, they are telling me you need to book/modify reservation for your brother. As per policy, it leads to the original form of booking which is Aeroplan. And no we’re not the same, we merged but still separate entity. Call Aeroplan.

Not to mention an hour of waiting before reaching the Altitude Line.



Aeroplan: No we don’t deal with this, the travel have already commenced. It is the carrier’s responsibility or airport control. Let me transfer you to Air Canada.



Air Canada: *Laughs at Aeroplan’s reasoning* We will open the ticket for you and offload him from the flight/ reservation. The ticket is open now and Aeroplan should be able to apply some modification/ changes. Let me transfer you to Aeroplan. *click*



Aeroplan: They opened the ticket but didn’t help you modify the reservation? They were able to control the ticket in the first place. Meanwhile, looking at available flights on Aeroplan website. An agent saw next Y flight YVR to TPE on the 23rd – which means delay for 3 days.

I saw a J booking leaving in 7 hours. YVR – TPE – MNL on BR. She was able to capture the flights but was “waitlisted” wasn’t able to issue the ticket. And then she’s 10 minutes before she’s done her shift so she hand it over to the next agent.

Next agent: No we can’t just give away J seat even with this case. You can use your miles to add to this booking and we will book your brother. You also need to shoulder the change fee and taxes. *groans*



Air Canada in YVR: 5 people were talking about this. One concierge member stepped out of his office and went to talk to ANA as to why it was handled like this. He kept me in the loop and explained the situation. I appreciated it. They ended up rebooking my brother in a direct flight with PR leaving in 5 hours YVR – MNL. Whew! They were able to reprotect my brother and was handled like IRROPS.



Aeroplan: That’s so nice of Air Canada. It shouldn’t be handled that way. It should’ve been “volunteer exchange”.



I don’t know what to believe now. I’m just happy my brother is happy to go home and be reunited with my parents. Sorry for the long post. I am lost myself.

YEG USER Jan 21, 20 3:29 pm

Happy to hear that it (somewhat) worked out in the end. IMHO ANA mishandled this - you'd have thought that an explanation from AC would have cleared things up. Once bags are checked on an interline itinerary there shouldn't be any nonsense harassing passengers for more money down the line (unless you go to check in an extra bag at an intermediate point).

AC often asks for volunteers to check carry-on bags to destination when their planes are full - IMHO you shouldn't have to pay additional money for complying with a request from one of the airlines involved.

On a related note (and there is no way that your incident caused this), prior to boarding my most recent flight a few days ago the agent made a comment along the lines of "we'd be pleased to check your carry-on for free to your destination as long as all of your flights are operated by Air Canada." I didn't think much about it at the time, but I guess the key takeaway is that one should never volunteer to gate check bags to destination on an interline itinerary.

dblumenhoff Jan 21, 20 4:13 pm


Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 31975474)
Why couldn't the luggage go back to carry on BTW?

At least in the US, carry on baggage is screened differently (and "more rigorously") than checked baggage. Things like knives, properly secured guns, and liquids over 3 oz are let through with checked baggage. Once you gate check a bag, it gets "downgraded" to checked baggage. They can't tell that it went through carry-on screening, so it can't become carry on again without going back through TSA (or CATSA). They can't just bring it back to the terminal. With things like strollers and valet checked bags, they mark them either "claim at gate" or "security-screened bag" to make sure they stay in the carry-on stream.

Theoretically they could pull the bag and you could go back through security with it, but I'm guessing if this all happened at the gate there wasn't enough time for that.

dav662 Jan 21, 20 4:26 pm

Am I to understand that this was because of the number of pieces issue? AC checked in more than the 2 pieces per pax and ANA refused to accept it when connecting to their flight?

If so is this always an issue with connections?

Often1 Jan 21, 20 5:06 pm


Originally Posted by dav662 (Post 31978794)
Am I to understand that this was because of the number of pieces issue? AC checked in more than the 2 pieces per pax and ANA refused to accept it when connecting to their flight?

If so is this always an issue with connections?

This is the essence of the issue. It is simply not stated well in the OP.

The passengers had six checked bags and some number of carryons when they checked in with AC. The checked bags were within the combined allowance. For whatever reason, AC could not accommodate the carryons and the family was asked / required to check their carryons. Those are checked to the final destination as this was a connection.

That brought the checked luggage to 9 bags for 3 people, causing an extra bag fee of $200 per bag by NH at YVR. The family was unable to pay the fee and the bags could not be offloaded and simply left (per whatever YVR security is in this situation) and thus one passenger stayed behind and was rebooked later.

The entire mess is caused by NH requiring the payment for the 3 gate-checked bags. While it is poor practice, rare across tickets anywhere in the world, and particularly heartless given that the extra bags were forced at the gate, that doesn't change NH's ability to enforce the rules and it chose to do so.

As this is the second time in a few weeks that this has occurred, it will take AC taking special care when it gate checks bags of passengers making NH connections. By way of example, it does have the capacity to return bags at the arrival gate (as it does with strollers and medical equiptment). It could also look to other passengers.

But, NH is apparently dead set on this and, short of changing the rules, isn't going to adapt.

RangerNS Jan 21, 20 5:11 pm

Isn't the basic rule that the allowance is that of the longest (or over the water) carrier? From that, collecting fees is the responsibility of the first carrier.

AP is irrelevant once travel has started.

AC checked X bags. And then more.. They got all the payment they wanted for them. NH wants payment for all of them. That is between NH and AC. PAX already handed them over to a competent authority. Reconciling money is between the carriers.

1353513636 Jan 21, 20 5:17 pm

I thought once the bags are checked they can't ask for more money midway. If this behavior is allowed, then what if OP had paid the excess bag fee to AC in YWG and then ANA demands more money at YVR and then SQ demands more money at SIN? Couldn't every carrier on the itinerary demand an excess bag fee?

dav662 Jan 21, 20 5:32 pm


Originally Posted by 1353513636 (Post 31978942)
I thought once the bags are checked they can't ask for more money midway. If this behavior is allowed, then what if OP had paid the excess bag fee to AC in YWG and then ANA demands more money at YVR and then SQ demands more money at SIN? Couldn't every carrier on the itinerary demand an excess bag fee?

Yes this something that IATA needs to sort out between the airlines. I do understand the frustrations of passengers. Especially in the two cases where they were forced to check in their hand luggage on the first flight.
I also feel AC should stand up for their passengers, and I am surprised that they could not sort it out between the two airlines.
I also would like to know if the passengers went to the transfers and mentioned that they have bags or just out of the blue ANA pulled them out?
Did ANA ask from the the excess baggage ticket or receipt?
How did ANA know that they have not paid? Normally you don't see it at all by the check in agents or the connections. They would see the number of bags checked by AC.


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