sarabseth

We had an Alitalia ticket to fly from SFO to PMO (Palermo), via JFK and FCO. We paid $1895 each for 2 Premium Economy tickets. Only the JFK-FCO flight was to be in Premium Economy class. I bid for business class upgrades, and 2 days before departure, the upgrade bid was accepted.

The first flight, SFO-JFK, was on Delta. That flight was delayed, and we would have missed our connecting flight in JFK. Delta rebooked us on KLM from SFO to AMS and then AMS to FCO. We caught our originally scheduled Alitalia flight from FCO to PMO.

At the time of rebooking, I fought long and hard with Delta to be rebooked in business class, or at least premium economy. I didn't get anywhere, and we finally just had to lump it and fly economy class on KLM from SFO to AMS.

I now need to pursue a compensation claim with Alitalia. My understanding of the rules is that:
a) I should be refunded 100% of the amount paid for the business class upgrade
b) since the JFK-FCO flight is more than 3500 km (as is the SFO-AMS, for that matter), I am entitled to reimbursement in cash of 75% of the price of the JFK-FCO segment.

Is my understanding correct? How exactly do I pursue this? Call their toll-free number? Or write to them (at what address)? And how is the cost of the JFK-FCO segment calculated?

Thanks for your help!
Sarab

PWMTrav

I think you'd be due the business class upgrade amount if you actually paid it - was it collected from you? Then, yeah, the way I read it you have a claim for 75% of the original ticket price - I'm not sure if going segment by segment matters. You're not due anything else because you weren't delayed in the end.

How I'd tackle it depends on who the ticketing carrier was. Did Delta sell you the ticket, or did Alitalia?

I'd file a claim first with the carrier for both pieces. If you don't get comped for the business class upgrade (and actually paid the money) I think you have a pretty straight forward chargeback with the credit card you used to pay, and since that fee would have been collected separately, should be easy enough.

For the 75% of the ticket for the downgrade, be prepared to fight back and forth. Delta might be easier to work with than Alitalia, so I'm kind of hoping they're your ticketing carrier. If it's Delta, start here:

https://www.delta.com/content/dam/de...ed-Kingdom.pdf

I know it says UK, but the EU regs apply, and the contact info will be European but English-speaking. I'd start there rather than calling Atlanta.

Best of luck.

Often1

Two entirely separate issues:

1. J Upgrade - That is a refund, not compensation. You will have a fight with AZ because they will point to DL as the late-delivering carrier and DL will tell you that you held a PE ticket and any side deal with AZ is between you and AZ.

2. EC 261/2004 downgrade compensation - This applies only to the operating carrier and this was a departure from the US to the EU. The operating carrier causing the downgrade was DL and as a non-EU carrier, EC 261/2004 compensation does not apply on a US-EU flight. AZ, the EU carrier, did not downgrade you, you simply did not fly on its aircraft and presumably did not want to wait a day to be rebooked on the same AZ flight the next day.

3. PE-Y refund - You did not say who the plating (marketing) carrier of the ticket was, but that carrier owes you a refund of the PE to Y fare difference.

Before fussing too much that you may have received the short end of the stick, it may well be that the two refunds come to somewhere along the lines of the 75% you would have received had EC 261/2004 applied (although they may not) in which case you may fuss, but it gets you nowhere.

sarabseth

Thanks for responding, PWMTrav!

<<I think you'd be due the business class upgrade amount if you actually paid it - was it collected from you?>> Yes, they charged my credit card at the time the upgrade bid was accepted.

<<How I'd tackle it depends on who the ticketing carrier was. Did Delta sell you the ticket, or did Alitalia?>> The original ticket was issued by Alitalia.

<<For the 75% of the ticket for the downgrade, be prepared to fight back and forth.>> If they give me a very hard time, is there an EU authority I can complain to? I believe the rules say they must reimburse me in 7 days.

sarabseth

Thanks, Often1!

I may not have made it clear but when I said "We had an Alitalia ticket to fly from SFO to PMO (Palermo)", I meant that our ticket was issued by Alitalia. I had booked directly with them. Our first leg to JFK was on Delta and the other two legs (to FCO and then PMO) were on Alitalia.

Not sure if I entirely understand. You are saying that under the circumstances Alitalia owes me the difference between the PE fare and the Y fare, even though it was the Delta flight being delayed that caused the whole problem?

Additional fact: when Delta was rebooking me, they asked Alitalia for some kind of authorization to rebook me in business class or premium economy with a partner airline, and Alitalia (for reasons that nobody explained to me) did not come through with this authorization. After issuing me a business class boarding pass for the JFK-FCO flight, they wouldn't authorize a business class or PE reissuance for the transatlantic flight.

Often1

It's complicated, but let's take it one step at a time:

1. EC 261/2004 - By the terms of the Regulation, it applies to the operating carrier only. The ticketing carrier is irrelevant for this purpose. Had AZ downgraded you, you would be due a refund75% of the segment price of the JFK-FCO segment (base fare, not including taxes). But, AZ did not downgrade you. It was DL which downgraded you when DL rebooked you in order to avoid a likely misconnect at JFK. But, DL is not an EU carrier and EC 261/2004 does not apply to non-EU carriers for flights from outside the EU to the EU.

2. PE-to-J Upgrade: You flew in Y so the carrier issuing the ticket (which has your money) owes you a refund of the value of that upgrade. You will need to approach AZ for that.

3. J-to-Y Downgrade: You were booked in PE and flew in Y. You are due a refund of the fare difference between what you paid for PE and what Y cost. Now that you have told us that AZ is the ticketing carrier, it is AZ which ought to issue the refund for that fare difference.

I would suggest a clear and concise note to AZ explaining the two items as well as copies of the two e-ticket receipts (not itineraries) and a copy of the J upgrade receipt. If you do not receive satisfaction from AZ, simply initiate a chargeback for the J Upgrade and the fare difference (two separate charges, two chargebacks). Presuming that you are US-based with a US CC, you have 60 days from the date the service was not delivered, so keep track of that.

You could also send a note to DL which does not owe you anything but might throw some miles or a small credit your way.

As I noted earlier, it may be that the refund you are due is approximately the same or even more than you would be due under EC 261/2004. No way of telling until you figure it all out.

PWMTrav

Often1 is right, follow that advice. I was mistaken on the ticketing carrier mattering.

sarabseth

Great! Thanks so much to both of you!

sarabseth

I had emailed Alitalia on Jun 10. I finally got my first response from them today, after 13 days. By phone, with nothing in writing.

She said that:
a) for the business class upgrade, I should get a full refund of the amount I was charged.
b) for the downgrade from Premium Economy to Economy, I'm covered by EC 261/2004. She said that very categorically twice. But I guess it may still change once she actually delves into the whole thing.

I had to file my claim through their online feedback system. Today, after 13 days, they told me the attachments never went through. I sent them again. She says it will take up to 10 business days for her to research everything and get back to me.

My 60 day period for disputing the credit card charges ends on June 30. If I haven't heard back, should I just wait for it to be resolved, or go ahead and dispute the charges? She told me I shouldn’t worry, I would receive whatever is fair, whatever I’m entitled to. But she also said:
i) she can’t put that in writing
ii) this is a very complicated, unusual situation because it involves three airlines
iii) she can’t make any promises whatsoever

Thanks!
Sarab

Ditto

You can dispute the charges for the PE-J upgrade you never received, if that's what you mean, I see no harm in doing that since you never flew in J.

As for the EC 261/2004 compensation, it is indeed very tricky given that it was not a straight forward downgrade, so I hope this goes well, there is nothing much to dispute with your CC though, as you did fly, and presumably also flew the return segment in PE.

warakorn

Alitalia did proactively call you? I don't believe it.

sarabseth

They called me in response to my email. After 13 days.

sarabseth

The credit card company allowed me to dispute the charge for the Business class upgrade, and also an estimated amount for the PE to coach refund.

nufnuf77

For the PE to Economy it should be 75% of the cost of that leg, not the difference between PE and E.