Unions voted down recapitalisation plan [Merged future of Alitalia thread]
Apr 6, 2019, 2:37 pm
#736
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Apr 7, 2019, 8:22 am
#737
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Illegal state aid is something that the member states and various European airlines are very interested in!!!
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - State aid: Commission opens in-depth investigation into Italian State loan to Alitalia
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - State aid: Commission opens in-depth investigation into Italian State loan to Alitalia
Apr 7, 2019, 10:19 am
#738
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EU ruling on illegal state aid had happened before, e.g. Cyprus airways which had to stop operations afterwards, see e.g.If Italy/AZ would ignore such a ruling, then any competor would have lots of legal methods of getting compensation from AZ and/or Italy.
Apr 7, 2019, 10:30 am
#739
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Illegal state aid is something that the member states and various European airlines are very interested in!!!
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - State aid: Commission opens in-depth investigation into Italian State loan to Alitalia
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - State aid: Commission opens in-depth investigation into Italian State loan to Alitalia
incredibly (for many), Italy is a good taxpayer inside the EU
the member states will just have to deal with it
Apr 7, 2019, 10:33 am
#740
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EU ruling on illegal state aid had happened before, e.g. Cyprus airways which had to stop operations afterwards, see e.g.If Italy/AZ would ignore such a ruling, then any competor would have lots of legal methods of getting compensation from AZ and/or Italy.
Apr 16, 2019, 1:32 am
#741
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It just gets better and better.
According to this article (Italian, use incognito to bypass paywall), the government is trying to involve Atlantia in the deal.
The slight problem is that Atlantia is also the company that controls Autostrade, which the current government has vilified and painted as a sworn enemy after the tragedy of the Genoa bridge.
So either the government eats a large portion of humble pie and tries to bring Atlantia in the deal, or they are left with two weeks to present the FS+DL binding deal prior to the repayment of the bridge loan which is due in two months.
I'm sure LH just slashed another 500 jobs from its plans for AZ.
According to this article (Italian, use incognito to bypass paywall), the government is trying to involve Atlantia in the deal.
The slight problem is that Atlantia is also the company that controls Autostrade, which the current government has vilified and painted as a sworn enemy after the tragedy of the Genoa bridge.
So either the government eats a large portion of humble pie and tries to bring Atlantia in the deal, or they are left with two weeks to present the FS+DL binding deal prior to the repayment of the bridge loan which is due in two months.
I'm sure LH just slashed another 500 jobs from its plans for AZ.
Apr 16, 2019, 2:19 am
#742
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It just gets better and better.
According to this article (Italian, use incognito to bypass paywall), the government is trying to involve Atlantia in the deal.
The slight problem is that Atlantia is also the company that controls Autostrade, which the current government has vilified and painted as a sworn enemy after the tragedy of the Genoa bridge.
So either the government eats a large portion of humble pie and tries to bring Atlantia in the deal, or they are left with two weeks to present the FS+DL binding deal prior to the repayment of the bridge loan which is due in two months.
I'm sure LH just slashed another 500 jobs from its plans for AZ.
According to this article (Italian, use incognito to bypass paywall), the government is trying to involve Atlantia in the deal.
The slight problem is that Atlantia is also the company that controls Autostrade, which the current government has vilified and painted as a sworn enemy after the tragedy of the Genoa bridge.
So either the government eats a large portion of humble pie and tries to bring Atlantia in the deal, or they are left with two weeks to present the FS+DL binding deal prior to the repayment of the bridge loan which is due in two months.
I'm sure LH just slashed another 500 jobs from its plans for AZ.
Apr 19, 2019, 6:02 am
#745
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It’s funny to see how many NOT Italian taxpayers and (perhaps even) NOT Alitalia customers are yearning to see the end for “our” great Airline ...
fortunately there are too many people/things involved and working (directly and indirectly) in Alitalia to think about that.
of all the European airline companies, I think Alitalia will be the last one to close ....
fortunately there are too many people/things involved and working (directly and indirectly) in Alitalia to think about that.
of all the European airline companies, I think Alitalia will be the last one to close ....
Apr 19, 2019, 10:40 am
#746
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It's not a yearning to see Alitalia close, but more to see them obey the law and thus there be a level playing field. I prefer more competition to less and would be great if Alitalia returned to financial health but realistically this is not going to happen. Obviously my opinion may change if Italian (or other) taxpayers are willing to fund me to run a loss making company.
Apr 20, 2019, 5:17 am
#747
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That is exactly the point. As much as I understand that there are times in which commercial enterprises might need help to be able to survive and prosper again, there are times when it is more than useful to put an end to a commercial enterprise. This is especially true when it is only able to survive with aid. If a company can survive only if it gets help again and again and again, then this is not only wasting lenders money, which can be invested somerwhere else much wiser, it is also damaging any competitor and damaging the employees of any competitor (lower wages, layoffs, bankrupcies of employer, ...). I would like to see the very proud AZ to survive. However, I have to admit that AZ belongs to the category of not being able to survive without outside financial aid over and over again.
Last edited by Scrooge McDuck; Apr 20, 2019 at 5:22 am Reason: Correction of typos
Apr 21, 2019, 4:51 am
#748
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And it keeps going on:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...cold--11462366
Although Atlantia is FCO operator, it makes little economic rationale.
And the 100 million by DL is just a little drop in the bucket. An insurance ticket for DL-AF that AZ will never resurrect as a competitor.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...cold--11462366
Although Atlantia is FCO operator, it makes little economic rationale.
And the 100 million by DL is just a little drop in the bucket. An insurance ticket for DL-AF that AZ will never resurrect as a competitor.
Apr 22, 2019, 7:26 am
#749
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That is exactly the point. As much as I understand that there are times in which commercial enterprises might need help to be able to survive and prosper again, there are times when it is more than useful to put an end to a commercial enterprise. This is especially true when it is only able to survive with aid. If a company can survive only if it gets help again and again and again, then this is not only wasting lenders money, which can be invested somerwhere else much wiser, it is also damaging any competitor and damaging the employees of any competitor (lower wages, layoffs, bankrupcies of employer, ...). I would like to see the very proud AZ to survive. However, I have to admit that AZ belongs to the category of not being able to survive without outside financial aid over and over again.
Alitalia employees are ones of the best payed in this market (maybe too much someone could say ..). So I can’t see how the employees of any competitors could take damage of that. Maybe the opposite.
The social cost for Italy would be higher if hundred thousands employees (not only Alitalia employees will suffer) loose their job. An entire village (Fiumicino), if not 2 (linate) would have same sort of Malpensa.
Taxes payed by a lot of associated companies would decrease up to 100%
Hundred thousands customers using daily Alitalia to travel for business across Italy would suffer and have strong problems about that.
Italian taxpayers? Yes, of course. If someone want can claim for a referendum. We live in a democracy. I think Alitalia represent 0.00001% of Italian serious problems. And taxpayers would have to pay the same or more if hundred thousands people loose their job.
If a national government think that this company have to live, European community need to think to something else. There are a lot a lot of things to be managed before by them.
Competitors’s problems if Italian government decide that Alitalia have to live, remain their problems ...
there are companies created to make profit directly. This is not Alitalia, since the beginning, and this company have always suited its social role perfectly
the only mistake was to sell this company to private. Now it’s clearly the time to take it back to let Alitalia continue its role.
If there is any foreigner company who desire to buy Alitalia it’s for their own interest. Then please don’t cry if will have the same sort as ethiad
Apr 22, 2019, 9:02 am
#750
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If a company can live only with public help while others manage to do that without, then this company is selling their products for less than what a fair price would be. This has the effect that all competitors have to sell their products for a price being to low, resulting e.g. in lower wages, less innovation, removal of competiton which in the long run will then results in monpolistic prices.
Sorry, I just don't understand that point, neither do I understand the rest of your arguments. I would suggst that we cut this discussion here as I don't any sense without getting into heavy econmic arguments which will not focus on the topic of this thread.