irishguy28

I wonder, in the light of the more recent news regarding Lufthansa's behind-the-scenes dealings with the German government and airberlin, whether these earlier reports are accurate? Whatever whispers may have been heard may have been misinterpreted as being offers for Alitalia when instead they may have been about the dealings for airberlin? Is Lufthansa likely to be able to deal with *both*? Is Lufthansa really going to bail out Etihad on both of their bad investments?

Given the (comparitively) long deadline for making offers for Alitalia, I again don't see the point of submitting a bid so early - particularly when, as in the case of Lufthansa, there may be quite a change to their "acquisition" scenario in the meantime, and they surely knew that airberlin moves were afoot, too....

No point committing oneself in August to a deal that won't be finalised until October at the earliest in such a dynamically-shifting environment! Whether you are Lufthansa, or anyone else! Better to wait and see - who knows what else may happen/change in the meantime?

I think LH will be far more interested in picking up bits of airberlin now. They may have desired Alitalia previously, but I think with the sudden rush to decide airberlin's future, Alitalia may now be a little too much for them to think about taking on.

Though, if the airberlin scenario looks like it won't run to Lufthansa's favour....then perhaps they will swoop on Alitalia.

Scrooge McDuck

LH is neither interested in a take over of Air Berlin nor in a take over of Alitalia. They would not only take the problems of the airlines (deficit, debt, wrong setup of airlines, problems with certain unions, ...) but would run also in antitrust law issues.

LH is interested in certain parts of Alitalia as Italy is a rather important market for them. The same is true for Air Berlin which already leased some of their planes to Lufthansa.

They do nothing else as all of their competitors: take some very valuable parts of competitors to strengthen their own position.

irishguy28

No-one said they were interested in a complete take over of either airline; it is written above that they are not interested in the handling parts of Alitalia, and in the relevant forum it is abundantly clear that LH is only interested in bits of airberlin, too.

My point was more along the lines of - are they really going to want to take bits of Alitalia now that it is more urgent for them to take on bits of airberlin (which is, after all, effectively a defence of their home turf, stopping some other airline/group that is in better shape than the zombie airberlin from gaining a significant share of the German market)

AlicorporateUK

Valid points there @irishguy28 and indeed I don't seem to remember anyone here suggesting that LH was intending to proceed with a full take-over. Conversely, it seems that the alleged interest towards AZ is (was?) connected to a wider operation that would see a limited number of assets of the troubled Italian carrier merged with EW, mostly focussing on long haul (with some or all the 330s currently in the fleet).

G

irishguy28

It would probably make sense if various interested parties could come together to cobble together a single proposal for taking on all parts of the business. I believe the owners of Monarch are interested in some/all of the handling/maintenance parts of Alitalia - they should have no trouble findingone or more parties interested only in the passenger parts of the business, such that a single complete offer could be made to the administrators. The administrators have said they will prioritise offers for the whole business.

Wombat1

I have a ticket, purchased some time ago, for a short intra-Europe FCO-XXX flight later this year. I'm not too concerned about losing the ticket cost if AZ goes belly up but I am concerned about a decline in maintenance and hence safety as that event looms. Is this concern justified? If so, should I just implement Plan B now and write off the AZ ticket?

AirCub1

There is absolutely no reason to write off your ticket or make a change from your Alitalia booking on the grounds of safety or maintenance. Alitalia, like all European Union and many global airlines has excellent safety and aircraft maintenance and these will in no way be affected by the current financial struggles the airline is experiencing.

AlicorporateUK

@Wombat1 - no safety concerns whatsoever, as per @AirCub1, you can put your mind at rest, at least from that perspective. I would be indeed more worried about a strike.

G

irishguy28

Absolutely not.

I cannot understand why anyone would even fantasize about any airline cutting corners in this manner, particularly one operating in such a highly regulated market.

AlicorporateUK

Italian press again indicating that LH would be after both AB & AZ (as we previously mentioned, though, they wouldn't go for a full take-over), they would be part of a wider plan which would include EW and a combined strategy indeed.

[IT] http://www.lastampa.it/2017/08/28/ec...SO/pagina.html
[IT] http://www.finanzaonline.com/notizie...lia-air-berlin

G

nldogbert

Hi,

I was just wondering as I recently flew a couple of flights with AZ, are they still within the Etihad partners alliance or out?
- I seem to remember previously before the whole fiasco came up, they used to mention in their Welcome message too that they were part of the Etihad alliance and Skyteam, but on my recent flights, this was not mentioned but in the arrival message they did mention that they were part of the Etihad partners alliance.
- I also noticed now on most flights operated by AZ, there is no EY codeshare anymore (but still with lots of other Etihad alliance codeshare partners)
- I could not use the Etihad lounge in LAX - was told that AZ is not part of the alliance anymore. [had to use the super inferior KAL lounge]

So I am confused now if they are in or out? I suspect that they are out.

On a side note: I noticed now that inflight service and even the Casa Alitalia lounge in FCO, quality has deteriorated compared to my last flight with them 4 months ago. Especially at the Casa Alitalia lounge:
- no table service anymore - there is no "waiter" that used to walk around to serve you drinks, etc or bring you food like the last time.
- Receptionist at the front, they used to escort you when you entered the lounge to your chair, they don't seem to do that anymore.
- Seems now that this lounge can be used by anyone with ST EP status as I saw the ST blue board outside the lounge ( I though the last time it was not there) and not only reserved for J-class passengers.
- Wine quality seemed to have degraded
- on-board they used to offer dine all day option, but for my flight when I asked, the FA was response was "I have to check if it's possible" (luckily it was a yes - but when received, everything was on a tray instead of laid out on the table individually). Although the menu still indicates it as All Day Dining.

Also now with the new E-wing @ FCO, do they plan to build a better lounge in the area? The closes lounge to these gate is a dump (the one next to the BA lounge). If you have time, going to the Casa Alitalia is still a better option, albeit that if you return to these new gates, you will have to go through security again.
With these new gates, what's with still the high usage of being bussed to the terminal? (was bussed upon arrrival on an fully loaded B777 to the terminal - luckily they had a J-only bus).

All in all - still a mix feeling of AZ if it does go belly up.

Cheers!

irishguy28

Yes, they are. But bear in mind that Etihad's new management is doing a U-turn on this EAP strategy. It has cut airberlin loose [and the airberlin website has removed most references to Etihad and no longer displays the EAP logo] and, although it apparently says it is interested in making an offer for Alitalia, is likely to have no part in whatever iteration of Alitalia emerges from the current bidding process.

For now, the EAP "alliance" remains more or less in name only, with earning still possible, but with any other perks and benefits probably less guaranteed.

http://www.etihad.com/en/about-us/our-equity-partners/

The Alitalia website still shows the EAP logo





I am not sure what you mean by that, or how you can definitively state that there is no EY codeshare anymore even if it is not prominently displayed. If the departure screens don't display an EY number, it doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't carry an EY codeshare number. There has been no official announcement of EY suspending codeshares on AZ.

EY long ago restricted access to its own lounges when travelling on EAP partners. See:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/etiha...ge-lhr-az.html

Remember that EAP was never really a "full" alliance in the sense that oneworld, Skyteam or Star Alliance are, and that, in any event, where there are other options - such as for a Skyteam passenger departing from LAX TBIT - that lounge hopping may not be allowed, particularly now by an airline that's own business is in trouble, let alone seeing all the money lost in AB and AZ.

AlicorporateUK

Hi @nldogbert,

While possibly not to a full extent, Alitalia is still within the Etihad Partners alliance. That said, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the on-board announcements, incidentally I've also noticed some discrepancies where CityLiner crews would always mention the EY bit whereas their colleagues would only go for the Sky Team version. Same for other things such as the welcome drink which was no longer offered up to a couple of months ago whereas it is pretty much done at random as we speak (they would just serve either juice or prosecco in a plastic cup instead of a proper glass, but nevermind).

I'm sorry to hear that you were not allowed to access the lounge at LAX, sadly that is also the case at LHR and I was amongst the first to find out, luckily though the Sky Team lounge upstairs is not a bad place to find shelter!

I entirely agree with you on the overall feeling concerning the service, even though I must admit I'm still positively impressed comparing the current state-of-play to the previous controlled administration back in 2008 when you could really feel that things were just falling apart (flights cancelled for no reason after boarding, merged services at no prior notice, choice of water and... water in business class and I could go on for ages). Dine anytime was a concept introduced by EY (and which apparently was strongly opposed by the trade unions) and I can therefore see why it is being abandoned (I'm not justifying the crews' attitude, not at all - I'm guessing it is just connected to the previous quarrels with the unions).

The former Le Navi lounge is indeed an awful place and I'm amazed they still keep it running, I would simply shut it and redirect people to the other Casa Alitalia. Puzzling indeed how Alitalia decided to keep that lounge in the new pier (which is incredibly nice and functional by the way).

G

bostontraveler

Could someone tell me where the Casa Alitalia lounge actually is? I couldn't find it. I ended up in some crappy lounge with no seats, no forks (eating lasagne with a spoon...) and a huge line for any drinks including water. This I think was near B30?

AlicorporateUK

While these days they're all called Casa Alitalia, the only lounges which have actually been refurbished for that purpose are -

Casa Alitalia Rome (former Giotto, T3, concourse E, non-Schengen, old wing, via people mover)
Casa Alitalia Milan-Malpensa

That said, below I'm listing the remaining AZ lounges in their main hub of FCO:

Dolce Vita | T1, land-side
Borromini | T1, Schengen, pier D (first floor via escalator just as you approach gate D1)
Le Navi | T3, non-Schengen, concourse E (new wing)

Any doubts, let me know.

P.S.: I'm flying via LIN tomorrow and will see whether the main lounge (currently closed) has been properly refurbished to Casa Alitalia standards.

G