stef315

WebTraveler, do you think that means that AS might have enough bargaining power to get us some kind of upgrade priledges on international flights? Whether it's a limited number (like one) paper cert or the ability to upgrade any flight on Delta with miles. We don't really have that ability right now with any carrier...mileage upgrades like the programs offer their own members. For instance, QF and AA have mileage upgrade awards.

Anyway, I asked today at the ANC MVPG luncheon about a rumored partnership with Delta and expressed that we wouldn't like to be treated the way Delta treats their frequent fliers. Ann Ardizone said she cannot comment on any possible partnership with Delta at this time. She didn't say that was impossible.

Points Scrounger

Delta elites have a tough enough time upgrading on international flights!

*IF* one is lucky, one can upgrade on FULL FARE ONLY. We're talking easily $1,500 per person to Europe from the West Coast. Delta has very strict "capacity controls". They have no problem whatsoever leaving top-tier elites on those full coach fares in the back, while several (not just "one or two") seats up front go empty (assuming there aren't enough non-revs to fill them all).

I would not wish their $$$$ lottery system on AS elites.

YVR Cockroach

I think getting mileage-paid, let alone courtesy upgrades on other carriers is pure wishful thinking. Not too many airline FFPs offer mileage paid upgrades on other airlines, and no (major) North American ones AFAIK. You should be grateful to get the reciprocal one with NW although elites of both are beneath the lowest of the own elites.

stef315

Well, I didn't really think it would happen! I just thought that with Delta being such a crappy airline that they might be desperate. I think that is the only way I would ever choose Delta...upgrading on Intl.

[This message has been edited by stef315 (edited 10-22-2003).]

toadman

I would highly doubt that DL would allow an international upgrade but maybe some kind of domestic upgrade. Would be a good move to get more AS fliers to give DL a look for the possible chance of an upgrade alla NWA.

WebTraveler

All I have said is that if Alaska were to do this I would think that Alaska could drive a hard bargain and get decent benefits in return. Otherwise, what good would a partnership with Delta really do for anyone that regularly flies Alaska? I doubt much. There are already decent tie-ins with Northwest and AA, and a less than perfect one with Continental. Between these three airlines the world and the United States is virtually covered. So adding Delta to the mix would do what?

It would:

(1) provide flights to Salt Lake City getting Mileage Plan credit. Right now this is one of those gaping holes in the system.

(2) provide us direct flights to Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Salt Lake (as mentioned above) Dallas is already covered with the AA deal. Is travel to Cincinnati non-stop a big deal many Pacific Northwest? Atlanta would be a decent benefit, but really not that big of a deal.

On the other side, does Delta provide service to any international destination that is not already serviced by another Mileage Plan partner?

I doubt too many travelers would fly Delta to Hawaii since they are forced to connect out of Salt Lake. I do believe there are LAX flights to Hawaii as well, which would provide some benefit to those in LA, except I believe AA and Continental already cover that angle for the Mileage Plan.

My point is that Delta really doesn't offer Alaska and its customers much more than what it already has. To Delta, however, Alaska could fill a gaping hole in their system on the west coast. To that end it is Delta that will benefit under this possible deal. Therefore, Alaska should drive a hard bargain if it decides to do it!

sxf24

I can't find any destinations Delta would offer new service to, though they offer faster and possibly more convenient connections to some European destinations via JFK or ATL then KLM would offer via AMS. (SVO, FCO, NCE, BOM, STR, VCE, IST and ATH for example)

DL would also be the only Mileage Plan partner to offer service to MEX via LAX, which would eliminate the need to connect on AA via DFW. DL also offers a slightly later LAX-GDL flight then AS.

In the end, MP members simply have more choices, which is always a good thing.

SEA_Tigger

And DL flyers have more choices on AS, which is a good thing for AS, as it means more revenue which means (hopefully) AS flyers will not see a further erosion of Mileage Plan benefits.

WebTraveler

Do you really think this will bring Alaska a huge chunk of new flyers? There is little competition between Alaska and Delta. In order to get where Alaska goes you will basically need to take Alaska. In many cases United and Southwest are other options. For example, it is doubtful even the total Delta loyalist will fly Portland-Salt Lake- San Francisco when they can already take Alaska Portland-San Francisco. So where is the new customer here?

Let's also assume a guy needs to get to Eugene from New York or Boston. The guy can't fly Delta as they don't go there and essentially will likely already take an Alaska partner to get there by connection.

So while Delta can offer Alaska some new passengers I am not sure the number is really that great. Again, Alaska is in the driver's seat.

One area I do think Delta could help us with is connections via Atlanta to the Caribbean. Does Delta serve the Caribbean well? Right now, aside from Puerto Rico, it is almost impossible to get somewhere in the Caribbean in less than 3 planes. AA it is a change in DFW and Miami OR San Juan, Cotinental it is a change in Houston then a change to a code-share partner, NWA doesn't serve it to my knowledge. So this is one area I think Delta could help.

sxf24

Delta has a solid Caribbean network, though it is smaller than American's. I counted 10 cities served via DL or Delta Connection via ATL. Almost all involve a long layover in ATL from the SEA or PDX redeyes.

SEA_Tigger

Which is why it makes sense for Delta.

If the Delta (DL) loyalist can earn and redeem miles on AS/QX, they will fly Alaska (AS) over United (UA) or Southwest (WN). When UA and DL had a mileage agreement (through 09/03), they would have flown UA. So AS will now get DL passengers that used to fly UA, and will keep them off WN.

Yes AS is, but only in that being able to earn and redeem SkyMiles on AS flights makes them the "logical" choice for a DL SkyMiles member. All of us here at FlyerTalk are proof that people will spend more and fly more (in terms of routing) to earn miles. AS must make it worthwhile for a DL flyer to choose them, and not go with just price on United, or Southwest, or Frontier.

Well, AA has the Carribean well-covered, though as you note, connections may be needed. DL is actually pretty weak there.

Where DL helps AS travellers is getting to the "deep South" - Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and North and South Carolina. AA and CO have a far smaller presence there then DL does.

[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 10-24-2003).]

Tango

I am suprised that every airline with the exception of United and America West do not have codeshares with Alaska.

SEA_Tigger

*grin*

Well, United doesn't need them (UAX covers the West, UA has service to ANC, and Mexicana covers South of the Border).

Can't speak for America West.

WebTraveler

If, as you say, the Caribbean is not well covered by Delta than that is not a plus for Alaska travelers. You'd think with the Atlanta location they'd maximize that area. But being tourist areas this is not the area where Delta has traditionally wanted to be in.

In the UA vs. AS game I think there could be some pickup of flyers on the SEA/PDX - SFO/LAX routes. I still don't think it is that many since I think many already choose Alaska anyway - sure the tie in of FF miles would make the decision easier. Also, if you consider the SEA/PDX - OAK, SJC, ONT, SAN, SNA, BUR routes then UA isn't going to help anyway, so again these flyers are already on Alaska, so no pick up.

Deep south could be of assistance. But I am not too sure there is that much traffic there from the PNW. If so you'd think that NWA would expand flights from its Memphis mini-hub. I don't know the answer to this question, but are there decent connections from the deep south via NW at Memphis? AA at DFW, Co at Houston? I don't do the deep south too often. I do know that NWA does not have a flight from PDX to Memphis, so there can't be a huge demand for the deep south or they would have added that.

What about anti-trust concerns? I would think that the United/USAir group would cry foul. Think about it....if Alaska ties up deals with AA, NWA, CO, Delta, and Hawaiian that really puts the squeeze on UA/USAir. I think that may be too many of the airlines. Personally I always have liked the competitiveness of Horizon and Skywest. It has been too bad that after 9/11 Skywest has curtailed back many of its routes, dropping some all together. The more choice, the lower fare.

For what it is worth, I still don't see the advantage for Alaska to enter this deal.

SEA_Tigger

UA and US together, plus Star, pretty much get you anywhere you want to go. So AS is not a real "threat" to them anymore than the other Big Six are (of which AS is a partner with).

AS and UA have a pretty complimentary route structure (with AS providing direct service, versus connecting with UA) for most of the "big" and "medium" markets. Yes, QX's better penetration and AS' direct flights may very well convince non Mileage Plus members to pick AS, anyway. But this is a marketing tie-in, and as such, it makes it more likely folks will chose AS, which is a good thing for AS and their flyers (especially if those folks are not MP members and staying back in Economy *grin*).

[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 10-24-2003).]