AS service in Bay Area Airports

Old Apr 19, 22, 2:51 pm
  #16  
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I miss the SJC/EWR flights as they were so easy to upgrade! Used to take it once a month
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Old Apr 19, 22, 3:01 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by richiezc View Post
I miss the SJC/EWR flights as they were so easy to upgrade! Used to take it once a month
Just like the DAL-LGA/DCA routes that were also slam dunk upgrades and got pulled. I wonder if there might be a reason why easy upgrade routes don't tend to last. Or perhaps it will remain a mystery and we'll never know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Old Apr 19, 22, 3:12 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Just like the DAL-LGA/DCA routes that were also slam dunk upgrades and got pulled. I wonder if there might be a reason why easy upgrade routes don't tend to last. Or perhaps it will remain a mystery and we'll never know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
yes agree, it's very hard to figure this one out

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Old Apr 19, 22, 3:23 pm
  #19  
 
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I was due to fly SFO > HNL on Saturday afternoon and there was only 1 open seat in FC, so I knew my chances were somewhat slim, even as a 100k.

I looked up SJC > HNL and there were 7 open seats, so I changed my flight and as of this morning have already been upgraded.

We're lucky to have 3 viable options out here but I agree, it's a shame to see this kind of consolidation happening. I hope post-pandemic growth leads to some of the better options we used to have!
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Old Apr 19, 22, 4:17 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by ShutUpDonnie View Post
I was due to fly SFO > HNL on Saturday afternoon and there was only 1 open seat in FC, so I knew my chances were somewhat slim, even as a 100k.

I looked up SJC > HNL and there were 7 open seats, so I changed my flight and as of this morning have already been upgraded.

We're lucky to have 3 viable options out here but I agree, it's a shame to see this kind of consolidation happening. I hope post-pandemic growth leads to some of the better options we used to have!
Do you mean 3 airports (SFO, SJC, OAK)? Note that Alaska completely ended all flights from OAK to Hawaii about a year ago. Like you, when flying to Hawaii I used to book whichever of SFO/SJC/OAK would give the highest upgrade odds. That's harder now that we've gone from 3 airports to 2 (and, with that, a decrease in overall frequencies from the Bay Area to Hawaii). Thanks, Southwest competition

If I were to get on my soapbox and complain about AS frequency cuts from the Bay Area, Hawaii is at the top of my personal list. (But, as stated before, I still don't think the situation is nearly as dire as the OP seems to indicate. I can still fly to Hawaii with relatively low fares! I'm just less likely to get upgraded now.)
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Old Apr 19, 22, 4:51 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by jhurwitz View Post
Do you mean 3 airports (SFO, SJC, OAK)? Note that Alaska completely ended all flights from OAK to Hawaii about a year ago. Like you, when flying to Hawaii I used to book whichever of SFO/SJC/OAK would give the highest upgrade odds. That's harder now that we've gone from 3 airports to 2 (and, with that, a decrease in overall frequencies from the Bay Area to Hawaii). Thanks, Southwest competition

If I were to get on my soapbox and complain about AS frequency cuts from the Bay Area, Hawaii is at the top of my personal list. (But, as stated before, I still don't think the situation is nearly as dire as the OP seems to indicate. I can still fly to Hawaii with relatively low fares! I'm just less likely to get upgraded now.)
I fly to Hawaii for business and AS was my absolute go to airline. Generally out of OAK for me and occasional SFO service to the Islands. So I agree the cut back in service to Hawaii has hit me hard, my travel dollars now go elsewhere, UA to be specific. I still of course use AS for SEA runs and that is super easy obviously. Also I will be picking AS up on EWR/JFK service but I have to go to NYC far less often for work than the Islands or SEA. As I noted above OAK was going to have expanded service to the Islands and wow that just disappeared during the pandemic! To now, well basically nothing out of OAK.
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Old Apr 19, 22, 7:35 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by nomad420 View Post
I fly to Hawaii for business and AS was my absolute go to airline. Generally out of OAK for me and occasional SFO service to the Islands. So I agree the cut back in service to Hawaii has hit me hard, my travel dollars now go elsewhere, UA to be specific. I still of course use AS for SEA runs and that is super easy obviously. Also I will be picking AS up on EWR/JFK service but I have to go to NYC far less often for work than the Islands or SEA. As I noted above OAK was going to have expanded service to the Islands and wow that just disappeared during the pandemic! To now, well basically nothing out of OAK.
I don't know if AS is even offering 500 seats total out of OAK these days. Two destinations. It is looking like UA over there before it called OAK quits years ago.
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Old Apr 19, 22, 7:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K View Post
I don't know if AS is even offering 500 seats total out of OAK these days. Two destinations. It is looking like UA over there before it called OAK quits years ago.
Sad situation indeed for OAK.
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Old Apr 19, 22, 8:17 pm
  #24  
 
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Looking at some fares today and it's a funny breakdown: OGG > LAX/SAN/SFO/SJC in main non-stop for midweek in May is $139 one-way. OGG > PDX/SEA is $269 for the same. Kind of ironic the PNW based airline is making their money sticking it to the people in the PNW. As I mentioned recently in another thread, WN has one-way OGG > PDX for $108 (granted, going through SJC). I like AS and generally am not a fan of being treated like cattle on WN for a 6 hour flight but for $108 vs. $269 I'm at least considering it.
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Old Apr 19, 22, 9:24 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by mtofell View Post
Kind of ironic the PNW based airline is making their money sticking it to the people in the PNW.
I think that this is an unnecessarily negative framing, but there's nothing ironic here. This is exactly what it means to have a home turf. From the PNW, they are offering a better (read: better tailored to the local market) product, with greater frequency, non-stop, and a planeload of brand recognition. Those are exactly the conditions under which one would expect to see a fare premium.

I think there's a bit of an implication here that they should make the deal sweeter as a thanks to their core customers, but that's part of what the loyalty program is for. Free, assigned seats in the "elite section" (if not Premium) is the sweetener, not offering the same fares that they have to offer when they have fewer of those home turf advantages.
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Old Apr 19, 22, 9:28 pm
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Originally Posted by CalanMan View Post
I think that this is an unnecessarily negative framing, but there's nothing ironic here. This is exactly what it means to have a home turf. From the PNW, they are offering a better (read: better tailored to the local market) product, with greater frequency, non-stop, and a planeload of brand recognition. Those are exactly the conditions under which one would expect to see a fare premium.

I think there's a bit of an implication here that they should make the deal sweeter as a thanks to their core customers, but that's part of what the loyalty program is for. Free, assigned seats in the "elite section" (if not Premium) is the sweetener, not offering the same fares that they have to offer when they have fewer of those home turf advantages.
Negative framing? It's less than half the cost at cities of similar distance. I'm supposed to be positive about this? I don't need a "sweeter" deal. How about the same you offer others? Or, something not 2.5X what your competition is offering?

I'm just a small business owner and probably don't get all these big-company things but I can't imagine a world in which gouging my core clients is a good long term strategy. Or, if "gouging" is too strong a word. I can't imagine offering my product for 60% less to my non-regulars is going to be perceived very well by my regulars.
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Old Apr 19, 22, 10:55 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mtofell View Post
Negative framing? It's less than half the cost at cities of similar distance. I'm supposed to be positive about this? I don't need a "sweeter" deal. How about the same you offer others? Or, something not 2.5X what your competition is offering?

I'm just a small business owner and probably don't get all these big-company things but I can't imagine a world in which gouging my core clients is a good long term strategy. Or, if "gouging" is too strong a word. I can't imagine offering my product for 60% less to my non-regulars is going to be perceived very well by my regulars.
I would suggest you speak to those in true captive hubs that don't even have a practical option for airline choice.

And I would suggest we remember how many bankruptcies AS has endured.

And I would also suggest that as a publicly traded company that it cannot charge less than what the market will bear without liability to its shareholders.

I get your point, don't disagree, and don't like to pay more than I need to.
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Old Apr 19, 22, 11:04 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by mtofell View Post
Negative framing? It's less than half the cost at cities of similar distance. I'm supposed to be positive about this? I don't need a "sweeter" deal. How about the same you offer others? Or, something not 2.5X what your competition is offering?

I'm just a small business owner and probably don't get all these big-company things but I can't imagine a world in which gouging my core clients is a good long term strategy. Or, if "gouging" is too strong a word. I can't imagine offering my product for 60% less to my non-regulars is going to be perceived very well by my regulars.
I'm not saying you are supposed to feel anything in particular, and definitely not saying your feelings should be positive. I absolutely miss paying less to fly my family 4.5 hours to get to the islands, as opposed to the more I pay now to spend 6 hours in the air getting everyone out there.

But a flight to OGG from SEA/PDX is not the same product as a flight to OGG from SFO/SJC. AS is offering "the same" fares to everyone. But folks in the PNW don't want a flight from SJC, they want it from where they live. The markets are different, the time in the air is different, the frequencies are different.

And I suspect as a small business owner you understand just fine how competition in your area affects the local market.

If you open up a new location in a new community and people don't know you and trust you less, you'll probably offer some sales that aren't necessarily company-wide. It doesn't mean you don't value your longtime customers. But the difference between these two customer bases isn't just regular vs. non-regular. Your Portland-based customers don't care what your prices you charge "for the same service" but in San Jose. They care what prices you charge in Portland, and what your competitors in Portland charge.
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Old Apr 20, 22, 1:06 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K View Post
I would suggest you speak to those in true captive hubs that don't even have a practical option for airline choice.

And I would suggest we remember how many bankruptcies AS has endured.

And I would also suggest that as a publicly traded company that it cannot charge less than what the market will bear without liability to its shareholders.

I get your point, don't disagree, and don't like to pay more than I need to.
Originally Posted by CalanMan View Post
I'm not saying you are supposed to feel anything in particular, and definitely not saying your feelings should be positive. I absolutely miss paying less to fly my family 4.5 hours to get to the islands, as opposed to the more I pay now to spend 6 hours in the air getting everyone out there.

But a flight to OGG from SEA/PDX is not the same product as a flight to OGG from SFO/SJC. AS is offering "the same" fares to everyone. But folks in the PNW don't want a flight from SJC, they want it from where they live. The markets are different, the time in the air is different, the frequencies are different.

And I suspect as a small business owner you understand just fine how competition in your area affects the local market.

If you open up a new location in a new community and people don't know you and trust you less, you'll probably offer some sales that aren't necessarily company-wide. It doesn't mean you don't value your longtime customers. But the difference between these two customer bases isn't just regular vs. non-regular. Your Portland-based customers don't care what your prices you charge "for the same service" but in San Jose. They care what prices you charge in Portland, and what your competitors in Portland charge.
You both raise good points. I guess it's also that I'm a big fan of AS and want to see them succeed. Having the competition offer the same routes for 60% less is concerning. Of course, WN is much less of an experience but I think a lot of vacationers traveling PNW to Hawaii don't realize that. They just want the cheapest seat. Fwiw, Delta and United also have some options that are MUCH cheaper than AS but I'm mainly focusing on WN since the times and costs are ultimately more favorable.

I've been super happy with AS over the last few years but, as mentioned, am starting to get a bit restless. I suppose my ultimate point is AS should be careful just how much they take their base for granted. Even loyal flyers are only willing to pay 2X+ for so long. I'm sure someone much smarter than me is/has crunched the numbers and knows what I'll endure and will get my hard-earned dollars in the end.
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Old Apr 20, 22, 9:19 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by mtofell View Post
I suppose my ultimate point is AS should be careful just how much they take their base for granted. Even loyal flyers are only willing to pay 2X+ for so long.
Take your FT goggles off for a second. 99%+ of People who fly AS in the PNW are definitely not concerned with what AS is charging people in other markets.
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