coxm

Dear all,

Fly American mostly, and needed a trip to BOS. Due to some schedule changes, i needed to fly Alaskan instead of JetBlue.

I’ve flown Alaskan a few times, mostly short west coast hops out of SFO, plus a prior tip to BOS and DCA round trip. For this jaunt, I flew paid first class. Trip out was uneventful. Service was fine. Return trip, yesterday was BOS>SEA>SFO on the 11am BOS>SEA flight. I was sitting Row 1 (again a paid seat, not an upgrade). Gate Agent boards in th middle of boarding and approaches a passenger in Row 2, informing him that he was being involuntarily downgraded to economy (and the back of the plane as there were no other seats on the plane). Passenger asked why, and the answer was so an Alaskan pilot who was deadheading back to Seattle could have the seat. Passenger asked why they were chosen for the downgrade since they were on a paid first class ticket, and the response was “because you were the last to check in”. The passenger asked a few more questions, but did accept his fate, because there wasn’t much else he could do.

after passenger moved, the flight attendant opened the overhead bin above row 1, which states “reserved for bulkhead row passengers” where luggage was stored, as I was sitting in the bulkhead, and moved it to the back of First/front of economy without asking me or telling me she was going to do it. When the deadheading pilot boarded, he placed his luggage above row 1, then took his seat in row 2.

ive always head how great the Alaska customer service/experience was…but considering that they impacted two paying first class customers (instead of upgraded customers) with little less than a “sorry, we’ve got a pilot that wants a ride” im trying to figure out if this is normal behavior or just a one off, outstation kind of practice? It did put a pretty sour taste in my mouth (the involuntary downgrade of a paying passenger, less so the moving of my luggage, although also surprised by it)

thoughts from the forum would be appreciated.

olouie

With all the major service and staff issues lately Alaska values pilots and FAs more than paying customers. Service has plummeted. They need to regroup as a regional airline because it’s what they are good at. The longer routes are so unreliable.

MSPeconomist

Do you know for sure that upgraded passengers were in FC?

Also, can you find Alaska's policies for IDB priority? DOT required that these be approved, "published", and followed, at least for IDBs if not enough volunteers can be found. I'm not sure whether the same requirements would apply to involuntary downgrades but if last check in is the criterion for IDBs, it *might *also apply to involuntary downgrades.

BTW, did the GA not say anything to the downgraded passenger about compensation? I would hope that it's more than some calculation of a fare difference.

I'm also confused about why the OP changed seats. Was this required by the GA? Was it desired by the passenger? Did the OP say anything when he/she observed the GA moving bags from the overhead bin?

ADDED: I don't know Alaska's formal policies on this union contract?), but many airlines put deadheading crew in premium cabin seats when then must work immediately after the deadheading flight, but not for a deadheading flight (back to home base, for instance) after their duty for the day. Deadheading to return home (as the OP suggests but is this really known? it sounds like TMI to me for a customer/passenger to know where the deadheading pilot lives or is based?) would normally not entitle a pilot to evict a revenue customer in FC (whether a confirmed upgrade, award ticket, etc.).

sullim4

That's inexcusable imo - the pilot should have sat in the back or in a jumpseat. This kind of bumping from F is expected with federal air marshals, but not with pilots.

Since you were only impacted by having your bag moved, I wouldn't ask for compensation. However, I still think it's worth sending your observations to Alaska Listens and give them the feedback. They need to hear this. The affected passenger should definitely be doing that as well.

MSPeconomist

NO. Airlines are no longer required to place FAMs in premium cabin seats.

jsguyrus

For those that don't know, in some circumstances a deadheading pilot is guaranteed a first class seat by contract. An example of a mandatory first class seat is when a pilot is repositioning to get to a flight where another pilot has called off sick etc. A normal deadheading pilot NEVER bumps passengers from first class unless under the required special circumstances.

coxm

OP here - I did not change seats. I was in 1A. I didn’t see the FA move my bags as I had gone back to reading my newspaper after the person in 2C moved back (it was probably 5 minutes between the GA telling the person in 2C that he had to move and the pilot boarded). GA told moved passenger he would be provided a refund of the fare difference, nothing about additional compensation.

not sure if there were any upgraded first class passengers vs booked full by paying customers. However the GA was explicit that customer in 2C was chosen because he was last to check in, it had nothing to do with paid vs upgraded.

notquiteaff

Perhaps the pilot was being flown to SEA to work a flight upon arrival (given the staff shortage yesterday)? I don’t know all the intricacies of employee travel and they may very well differ from airline to airline, but perhaps there are rules for pilots traveling on company business (vs choosing to commute from their home)? Obviously the optics aren’t great.

Hopefully the bounced passenger got generous compensation.

coxm

we were in Boston headed to Seattle. I don’t know where the pilot lives, but flying for Alaskan, I wouldn’t assume Boston, but who knows. But I guess it is possible it was a true deadhead prior to shift as opposed to deadhead home from the inbound red-eye flight

jsguyrus

its Alaska, not Alaskan!!

notquiteaff

So is that going to be the Saver fare available at the time the passenger booked or the Y fare at the time of departure?

And how does it get refunded - wallet credit or cash or credit to the original credit card (which may have been a corporate card)?

notquiteaff

it’s

olouie

When AS is stranding passengers now because of cancellations and inability to reach them they are telling their impacted to send in their receipts from other airlines and will review for reimbursement. My guess is that 99% of those requests will be rejected. So I’m not surprised their offer for downgrades is very limited.

VegasGambler

my answer would be "you can offload me if you want but I'm not sitting in economy"

EDIT: And, actually, FWIW, the DOT makes it pretty clear that once you have boarded they can no longer deny you boarding or remove you from the flight. I don't know if that would apply to seat changes as well. I think if you just politely refuse there's not much they can do. Of course if you are belligerent or disruptive that's a different story.

Can airlines involuntarily bump me after I have boarded the flight?

• Generally, no. If you have met the following conditions, airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if you have already boarded the flight:
  • You have checked-in for your flight before the check-in deadline set by the airlines; and
  • A gate agent has accepted your paper boarding pass or electronically scanned your boarding pass and let you know that you may proceed to board.
• However, airlines may deny boarding or remove you from a flight even after accepting your boarding pass and informing you that you may proceed to board if the denial or removal is due to a safety, security, or health risk, or due to a behavior that is considered obscene, disruptive, or otherwise unlawful.

olouie

That works unless you have somewhere to be or care about getting there within a few days. Glad I have trip cancellation insurance these days with the number of AS cancellations.