Labor Issues Cause Flight Cancellations

Old Apr 5, 22, 2:25 pm
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Originally Posted by notquiteaff View Post
So they rebooked you on UA? Are the flight times at least semi-convenient? Donít forget to request original routing credit from AS (and double dip from UA presumably also still works).
Not even remotely convenient. Horrible routings through SFO or ORD and crappy middle seats. Zero space on AA or DL for them to book. I told them to leave the ticket for the moment while I sort alternatives. Prolly just gonna cancel and book a DL ticket that works for me. Already did the same for going home. Its just too risky on AS now.
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Old Apr 5, 22, 2:57 pm
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Originally Posted by rune87 View Post
Welp. My SEA-TPA flight tomorrow night just got killed. Full flight. Only option was ...... United routings. Nothing even on AA. That OW alliance sure is great! Hello Delta my old friend.
current look at the seat map for the MCO redeye shows a couple middles in PC and exit row, one window in the back, and four unclaimed in F

late afternoon MCO has six PC middles and eight up front
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Old Apr 5, 22, 3:33 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
current look at the seat map for the MCO redeye shows a couple middles in PC and exit row, one window in the back, and four unclaimed in F

late afternoon MCO has six PC middles and eight up front
4 Phone Calls later that's where I ended up. Switched to MCO redeye and adjusted everything else. Took convincing. Its track record the last few days however is even worse so I flying on a prayer.
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Old Apr 5, 22, 3:40 pm
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Originally Posted by rune87 View Post
4 Phone Calls later that's where I ended up. Switched to MCO redeye and adjusted everything else. Took convincing. Its track record the last few days however is even worse so I flying on a prayer.
Isn't that a wing and a prayer
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Old Apr 5, 22, 3:48 pm
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we're on the late afternoon SEA-IAD tomorrow and keeping fingers crossed that we don't have to deal with a similar scramble ... I see a handful of AS options, but none particularly palatable ... N lounge meetup if we wind up on a redeye to PHL or JFK?
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Old Apr 5, 22, 3:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K View Post
Isn't that a wing and a prayer
Gotta have an aircraft to have a wing.
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Old Apr 5, 22, 4:04 pm
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Originally Posted by notquiteaff View Post
So they rebooked you on UA? Are the flight times at least semi-convenient? Donít forget to request original routing credit from AS (and double dip from UA presumably also still works).
My original rebook was on Alaska a day later via Seattle. I called and said that wonít work. I got re-booked on United via SFO. Iíd rather be on United right now. Flights were pretty full but I was able to get two Economy Plus seats.

I have a friend flying to Maui in a couple of days. I hope he makes it.
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Old Apr 5, 22, 8:37 pm
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We gave up on our holiday SEA-PHL, and thank God as AS would have screwed us the week after Xmas.

Am in Kona now.....wondering if we will get back this weekend.

It's like Alaska wants us to just head for DL.
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Old Apr 5, 22, 9:22 pm
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Originally Posted by StrandedinLA View Post
We gave up on our holiday SEA-PHL, and thank God as AS would have screwed us the week after Xmas.

Am in Kona now.....wondering if we will get back this weekend.

It's like Alaska wants us to just head for DL.
Maybe you will just be Stranded in LA
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Old Apr 5, 22, 11:10 pm
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Originally Posted by sea_jeff View Post
And being honest the hard product in HA is > AS.
It's been that way since HA dumped the decrepit 767s they bought from DL, amongst others. I like AS for domestic but will fly HA to HNL or OGG nearly every time on the A330. As AS was cutting in flight beverages a few months ago, HA offered up 2-4-2 seating in coach and was passing out free Koloa rum cocktails to all Y pax.

The glorified free hot pocket in coach might be lousy, but hey, I'll take that, the bag of Tim's chips, the shortbread cookie, a free cocktail, and no middle seat over fighting for an armrest with a middle seat pax and receiving a packet of snack mix and boxed water.
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Old Apr 6, 22, 7:33 am
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Originally Posted by seacarl View Post
It's simpler than the more complex long term pilot shortage. It's a labor negotiation and labor is trying to apply pressure by calling out and declining extra flights. You can say that management was short-sighted in designing a schedule that doesn't have enough slack during a labor negotiation. But if they settle their contract then there will be enough pilots again
There are only enough pilots only because of overtime. I don't think this is sustainable into perpetuity.
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Old Apr 6, 22, 7:46 am
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
There are only enough pilots only because of overtime. I don't think this is sustainable into perpetuity.
It is not sustainable now. The longer it goes on the more pilots get poached by other airlines. If AS is not going to wrap this up quickly, they should start to cut their summer schedule now. Giving customers the message that they will be randomly cancelling flights at the last minute during the summer when there wonít be any alternatives aside from staying home is not going to sit well. They are actively destroying the good will they built up over many years.
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Old Apr 6, 22, 8:22 am
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Originally Posted by sullim4 View Post
It's been that way since HA dumped the decrepit 767s they bought from DL, amongst others. I like AS for domestic but will fly HA to HNL or OGG nearly every time on the A330. As AS was cutting in flight beverages a few months ago, HA offered up 2-4-2 seating in coach and was passing out free Koloa rum cocktails to all Y pax.

The glorified free hot pocket in coach might be lousy, but hey, I'll take that, the bag of Tim's chips, the shortbread cookie, a free cocktail, and no middle seat over fighting for an armrest with a middle seat pax and receiving a packet of snack mix and boxed water.
To each their own. While the HA F product is awesome, I find Y lacking. You get one run of the beverage cart with an offer for a rum cocktail. Youíre walking to the galley and paying for alcohol, even in Y+, after that. I find seats and pitch on A330s to be worse and miss Wi-Fi. Wide bodies are nice thoughÖ

Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
It is not sustainable now. The longer it goes on the more pilots get poached by other airlines. If AS is not going to wrap this up quickly, they should start to cut their summer schedule now. Giving customers the message that they will be randomly cancelling flights at the last minute during the summer when there wonít be any alternatives aside from staying home is not going to sit well. They are actively destroying the good will they built up over many years.
I am pretty sure AS is looking at future schedules. We are definitely seeing advance cancellations in April with day-of cancellations declining.

Labor negotiations are complicated. Concluding based on current events is risky, as is holding out for before times. The current sentiment is AS management was moving slow through COVID but that pilots are not being realistic now and want wages in-line with avg pay at Delta, including widebodies.
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Old Apr 6, 22, 8:24 am
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
There are only enough pilots only because of overtime. I don't think this is sustainable into perpetuity.
There are lots of industries that use overtime over long periods of time. Manufacturing and police are two examples that come to mind. Transportation like railroad also. The employees like it because it lets them supplement their income at a higher pay rate, and generally employees can self-select for those who value the extra money the most (that excludes mandatory overtime.) A certain level of overtime is generally sustainable which is why it persists long term. However it makes the company vulnerable to labor action at the time of a contract dispute as we are experiencing now.

All the mainline carriers are hiring from the regionals. This is going on at an accelerated pace now, and is part of the reason that Horizon is discontinuing the Q400 - they know that they will be losing employees to Alaska mainline. Skywest cannot fulfill all its flying for the majors any more due to pilots graduating to mainline. It's going to be an issue for regional flying industry-wide.
Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
It is not sustainable now. The longer it goes on the more pilots get poached by other airlines. If AS is not going to wrap this up quickly, they should start to cut their summer schedule now. Giving customers the message that they will be randomly cancelling flights at the last minute during the summer when there wonít be any alternatives aside from staying home is not going to sit well. They are actively destroying the good will they built up over many years.
Poaching to other airlines isn't a big problem unless you are talking about very low seniority pilots, and then why would they have joined AS instead of one of the big three? AS doesn't offer widebody flying, so advancement is limited, and payscales and conditions were known. So they probably joined AS either because they could get the base they wanted (e.g. SEA or PDX without commuting) or they like something about the company or culture. Because seniority is so ingrained in the quality of the job, and because you lose seniority if you switch carriers, it really is not an attractive option to switch carriers - it's more effective to get the best contract you can at your carrier. Else you have to start seniority all over again with the worst trips.

Agreed that AS needs to get this under control or reduce schedule. I do think the fact that they are proactively cancelling instead of waiting until people are at the airport is better for passengers, but they either need more flexible self-help tools (ie. let you change flights online that involve routing changes and terminal changes and ideally also select other airlines) or else they need to dramatically ramp up call center staffing which is probably hard to do. What good is it if they proactively cancel your flight but you cannot get through to the airline on the phone to get rebooked?
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Old Apr 6, 22, 8:49 am
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
It is not sustainable now. The longer it goes on the more pilots get poached by other airlines. If AS is not going to wrap this up quickly, they should start to cut their summer schedule now. Giving customers the message that they will be randomly cancelling flights at the last minute during the summer when there won’t be any alternatives aside from staying home is not going to sit well. They are actively destroying the good will they built up over many years.
This is where AS is ruthless. They've been down this road so many times, that while it appears that the pilots have some leverage, AS is perfectly willing to play this out knowing that they've been experts over the years in recovering from service issues. While in the short term they'll loose customers, their long game is to keep the lack of Scope and have carte blanche in ordering and placing E's with regionals. Anyone who has been through SFO lately can see at any given time during the day, the number of E's parked at the gates exceed mainline X 2. AS will eventually get a contract, but not until they have played all their cards and have gotten a lot of what they want in a CBA. Their pilot group has many 7 year CA, those pilots aren't going anywhere to start over. What they are at risk of loosing are junior FO's, and they have lost some, but the way AS plays the labor game, those are loses that they might be willing to take. As far as a recovery? Most travelers have a short memory. AS knows now that they're a member of OW and the partnership with AA they are more attractive to many flyers. I believe AS believes that they can win most of us back as well as tap into new flyers. With merger mania picking back up, there are going to be some carriers that may have to swallow a ton of debt. Debt like they've never had to service in their history. Not to mention dealing with DOJ and integrating operations and staff. Those are items that I know first hand hurt your focus while working through them. AS may believe that buys them time. As much as I dislike how AS has always handled negotiations with their work groups, based on their history with labor, I see them dragging this out for a bit. I hope I'm wrong.

Last edited by Tack; Apr 6, 22 at 8:56 am
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