WN enter more northwest cities
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
WN enter more northwest cities
And WN announced today that it intends to start service to EUG (2021 Q3) and BLI (2021 Q4).
https://www.southwest.com/destinations/route-expansion
Anyone want to guess as to the AS response?
https://www.southwest.com/destinations/route-expansion
Anyone want to guess as to the AS response?
#2
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: PDX, OGG or between the two
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 2,863
And WN announced today that it intends to start service to EUG (2021 Q3) and BLI (2021 Q4).
https://www.southwest.com/destinations/route-expansion
Anyone want to guess as to the AS response?
https://www.southwest.com/destinations/route-expansion
Anyone want to guess as to the AS response?
#3
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: BUR/LAX
Programs: AS MVP
Posts: 300
Yeah, AS seems to have a pretty good stronghold on many of shorter Pac NW routes. I'm curious... does this mean WN is going to start running smaller planes? I can't imagine it makes sense to fly a 737 in/out of Eugene, OR, etc. I guess the better question would be, is that even possible? AS has a bunch of the smaller planes (Q400, B175) that I'm guessing they picked up from Horizon. Hard to believe WN can compete with their current fleet.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,368
#5
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,989
Yeah, AS seems to have a pretty good stronghold on many of shorter Pac NW routes. I'm curious... does this mean WN is going to start running smaller planes? I can't imagine it makes sense to fly a 737 in/out of Eugene, OR, etc. I guess the better question would be, is that even possible? AS has a bunch of the smaller planes (Q400, B175) that I'm guessing they picked up from Horizon. Hard to believe WN can compete with their current fleet.
Interesting move by WN, though. I would guess EUG would get DEN and maybe LAS service on WN, but who knows. Definitely came out of left field.
AS is going to have a conniption fit if WN announces ANC during all of this expansion.
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
Rarely (if ever) does WN offer less than 4x daily from an airport, so I have to think that LAS, DEN, OAK, HNL and LAX are probably the top options for WN (I'm looking at it from a BLI perspective). I would expect EUG to be similar, (however I doubt EUG has the O/D potential that BLI does for HNL).
As for ANC, G4 were going to fly BLI-ANC (I think they did for part of 2020), and it does show on their route map, although not bookable at the moment.
As for ANC, G4 were going to fly BLI-ANC (I think they did for part of 2020), and it does show on their route map, although not bookable at the moment.
#7
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,956
Rarely (if ever) does WN offer less than 4x daily from an airport, so I have to think that LAS, DEN, OAK, HNL and LAX are probably the top options for WN (I'm looking at it from a BLI perspective). I would expect EUG to be similar, (however I doubt EUG has the O/D potential that BLI does for HNL).
As for ANC, G4 were going to fly BLI-ANC (I think they did for part of 2020), and it does show on their route map, although not bookable at the moment.
As for ANC, G4 were going to fly BLI-ANC (I think they did for part of 2020), and it does show on their route map, although not bookable at the moment.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PDX
Programs: AS 75K, BW Plat, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 10,724
UA already runs mainline to EUG. If it’s a facility question, EUG routinely gets 737 and 757 service in fall for UO and OSU football charters, and can handle larger aircraft if needed. It’s the second largest airport in Oregon by size.
Interesting move by WN, though. I would guess EUG would get DEN and maybe LAS service on WN, but who knows. Definitely came out of left field.
AS is going to have a conniption fit if WN announces ANC during all of this expansion.
Interesting move by WN, though. I would guess EUG would get DEN and maybe LAS service on WN, but who knows. Definitely came out of left field.
AS is going to have a conniption fit if WN announces ANC during all of this expansion.
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PDX
Programs: AS 75K, BW Plat, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 10,724
And WN announced today that it intends to start service to EUG (2021 Q3) and BLI (2021 Q4).
https://www.southwest.com/destinations/route-expansion
Anyone want to guess as to the AS response?
https://www.southwest.com/destinations/route-expansion
Anyone want to guess as to the AS response?
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,368
ah, the eternal optimist
I’m willing to bet that a lot of folks in EUG are a lot more price- and time-sensitive ... those are the pax who WN is chasing
I know this or a similar comment has appeared more than a few times on on the DL board, but I can’t recall seeing it here ... we FTers aren’t really representative of the vast majority of the traveling public
... I highly doubt entering the EUG or BLI market means they're going to start flights from EUG/BLI-SEA. There is no way I'm going to take a non-stop flight on WN from EUG-LAS when I can fly AS and get more miles on a traditional, mileage-based frequent flyer program, a confirmed seat assignment, a visit to the Alaska Lounge in PDX/SEA, and the potential for an upgrade.
I know this or a similar comment has appeared more than a few times on on the DL board, but I can’t recall seeing it here ... we FTers aren’t really representative of the vast majority of the traveling public
#11
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: PDX, OGG or between the two
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 2,863
So, the question is, will enough people take the budget route with WN? Knowing the local area and having two universities near a place like EUG I'd say yes. Hell, those kids would ride on the wing to save $10 to get to the game... or to get home from college or to go party in Vegas or whatever. Does that mean AS is out of business? Of course not. It's just a bit of friendly competition. I'm no economist but it seems like a pretty big commitment/leap of faith to move into these small airports with 150-200 seat planes. If nothing else, the prices should get better. I've been surprised/disappointed at some of the AS fares to/from smaller Pac-NW airports.
#12
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MFR
Programs: Alaska MVP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 714
This is a great point but there is also a valid counterpoint - I'm now with you. No way I'll be treated like a piece of cattle in a herd to save a few bucks. But I haven't always had this mindset. For years I flew 1X every year or two.... airline loyalty meant nothing. $10 cheaper fare? I'm game. Now, I appreciate the perks, mileage program, seating upgrades, lounge access, etc. that AS provides and WN likely can't or won't.
So, the question is, will enough people take the budget route with WN?
So, the question is, will enough people take the budget route with WN?
I would never take a non-stop flight when I could have a connection is peak Flyertalk. For most people a 1.5 hour nonstop flight always beats a 4+ hour connection. Unless, as in the current case of EUG-LAS, the nonstop is Allegiant in which case, h--- no! Why rag on Southwest when there are truly inferior airlines to rag on?
#13
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SEA, PAE, BLI
Programs: WN A-List Preferred, AS, DL Kryptonium
Posts: 1,604
So, the question is, will enough people take the budget route with WN? Knowing the local area and having two universities near a place like EUG I'd say yes. Hell, those kids would ride on the wing to save $10 to get to the game... or to get home from college or to go party in Vegas or whatever. Does that mean AS is out of business? Of course not. It's just a bit of friendly competition. I'm no economist but it seems like a pretty big commitment/leap of faith to move into these small airports with 150-200 seat planes. If nothing else, the prices should get better. I've been surprised/disappointed at some of the AS fares to/from smaller Pac-NW airports.
It's worth noting as well that BLI can also serve much the same market as PAE, especially with Seattle traffic. Everett to SeaTac is ~50 minutes without traffic while BLI is ~75 minutes, which is more than made up by the easier parking situation and shorter security lines. BLI's management was quoted as saying they'll take any service that can't go to PAE because of slot restrictions.
My guess is that BLI will have service to LAS, PHX, DEN, and OAK as that would provide a lot of connection options on the WN network and also covers a lot of G4's routes, many of which were flown for the short-lived reincarnation of Western when it tried a BLI hub about a decade ago. WN could also take over a lot of the gambling charter flights to Reno, Laughlin, and Wendover which are currently operated by Swift Air, but were previously operated by G4.
#14
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SAN
Programs: AS Mileage Plan 100k, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 991
My 2 very uninformed cents...
WN will be able to make 737 work into even the smallest stations by maintaining a single type fleet. The *millions* of dollars to even study rolling out a new maintenance, training, certification, and ops plan for a new plane is nothing compared to the cost of actually rolling it out. As strange as it sounds, it's simply cheaper to stick with the 737 fleet even if it means flying them into BLI or EUG.
I also agree that WN and AS are targeting different customers, and their marketing strategy reflects that. AS is the cool, woke, west coast based airline that offers perks from F class to lounges to assigned seats. WN is the "I don't care, I am going to ride the plane to wherever in my sweats because I fly once a year and this was the cheapest ticket and I get free bags" airline. Exceptions to both of course.
People certainly prefer WN in many cases, lots of my friends do. While it's baffling to me, they are loyal and feel connected to the Southwest brand. Personally, you won't find me caught dead in the cattle chute. It's just a different mindset.
WN will be able to make 737 work into even the smallest stations by maintaining a single type fleet. The *millions* of dollars to even study rolling out a new maintenance, training, certification, and ops plan for a new plane is nothing compared to the cost of actually rolling it out. As strange as it sounds, it's simply cheaper to stick with the 737 fleet even if it means flying them into BLI or EUG.
I also agree that WN and AS are targeting different customers, and their marketing strategy reflects that. AS is the cool, woke, west coast based airline that offers perks from F class to lounges to assigned seats. WN is the "I don't care, I am going to ride the plane to wherever in my sweats because I fly once a year and this was the cheapest ticket and I get free bags" airline. Exceptions to both of course.
People certainly prefer WN in many cases, lots of my friends do. While it's baffling to me, they are loyal and feel connected to the Southwest brand. Personally, you won't find me caught dead in the cattle chute. It's just a different mindset.
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,626
This is a great point but there is also a valid counterpoint - I'm now with you. No way I'll be treated like a piece of cattle in a herd to save a few bucks. But I haven't always had this mindset. For years I flew 1X every year or two.... airline loyalty meant nothing. $10 cheaper fare? I'm game. Now, I appreciate the perks, mileage program, seating upgrades, lounge access, etc. that AS provides and WN likely can't or won't.
So, the question is, will enough people take the budget route with WN? Knowing the local area and having two universities near a place like EUG I'd say yes. Hell, those kids would ride on the wing to save $10 to get to the game... or to get home from college or to go party in Vegas or whatever. Does that mean AS is out of business? Of course not. It's just a bit of friendly competition. I'm no economist but it seems like a pretty big commitment/leap of faith to move into these small airports with 150-200 seat planes. If nothing else, the prices should get better. I've been surprised/disappointed at some of the AS fares to/from smaller Pac-NW airports.
So, the question is, will enough people take the budget route with WN? Knowing the local area and having two universities near a place like EUG I'd say yes. Hell, those kids would ride on the wing to save $10 to get to the game... or to get home from college or to go party in Vegas or whatever. Does that mean AS is out of business? Of course not. It's just a bit of friendly competition. I'm no economist but it seems like a pretty big commitment/leap of faith to move into these small airports with 150-200 seat planes. If nothing else, the prices should get better. I've been surprised/disappointed at some of the AS fares to/from smaller Pac-NW airports.
My WN travels are for convenience. Mostly intra-state between the smaller airports, but I'll take that over adding what could be a couple of hours to a travel day, more likelihood of delays, etc., for a few extra EQMs or the Caviar Cart between Northern and Southern Cal (not to mention the Champagne Bar in the airport lounge). If I want a guaranteed aisle and overhead bin space, I pay the fee. Boarding is civilized. And as far as that goes, pick your livestock. Cattle on WN. Sheep on AS. At least the cattle line up by number. The sheep just flock to the narrow entry point.