AS Flyer

I just popped in, so forgive me if I'm repeating anything anyone already said. The thread title is not just a little overblown. Basically, JetBlue is upping its presence in a market that is already saturated, that no single airline has ever been able to claim as their own. They're adding a few flights to some short haul markets that have trash yields with a crazy amount of competition (LAS, SFO, SLC...) and a few medium haul markets (SEA, AUS...) that are also already saturated. JetBlue is a really nice airline but they're not offering anything of more value to most of these "new" destinations. The only new route that would be an exception is possibly EWR - and it remains to be seen if they can capture a chunk of traffic from UA. This is much ado about nothing. The only thing worth noting is that they're giving up on Long Beach - which nearly every other airline that isn't Southwest seems to have done as well. We'll see what Southwest decides to do when there's nobody else to compete with there. The Long Beach terminal is really nice and it's very convenient for those in that area, it's a shame to see it go to waste.

jiburi

Virtually every US airline consider LAX to be their focus city, except B6. B6 is late to the LAX party, and will have every competitor out maneuvering B6. AS won’t have to do much, other than seeing B6 burn through their reserves. It’s like seeing Virgin America returning to sky again, unprofitable.

Jiburi

SNAnghbr

i remembered reading the seat window alignment issue stems from the birth of economy +. The windows would align if the economy cabin was a single class.

Eastbay1K

Not much more than another Henny Penny / Chicken Little type matter. I do feel for the LGB folks. It will be turning into another OAK, albeit with fewer flights. Want to see Bald Eagles in their "territory?" Go to the garbage dump. WN will attempt to scavenge, accordingly.

cmd320

On an hour flight, yes the difference in Y may not be particularly notable for most. Personally when I fly B6 (on flights without J) I always fly in EMS which typically offers enough legroom for me to exit my window seat and access the aisle without disturbing the aisle passenger. This for me is a big deal.

With that said, for the J customer flying from the east coast and connecting to points on the west coast, there is no contest. As a transcon J customer, this is very important to me. I would much rather fly transcon in Mint and connect to a shorthaul flight in EMS as opposed to flying in some garbage domestic F product on a legacy the whole way having to climb over someone to get out of the window, sit upright in a standard F seat, etc.

If B6 were smart, they'd deploy their new A220s out of LAX as not many will be able to match that experience.

sfozrhfco

Except that has no basis in reality. LAX has been one of B6's most profitable stations and was far more profitable that LGB was and ever will be. So since the "new'" flights are simply moved from one airport to the other, all they have to do is better than they did in LGB which is a very low bar. They are not going to waste a lot of time adding short West Coast trips that have rock bottom fares. International customers and trancons/Hawaii will make them money and is where the expansion will be. Expect AS to further retreat to their West Coast focus. I would not be surprised if AS moves capacity from LAX-EWR to Seattle or drops it. Boston has been a very weak market for them from LAX and JFK is not doing much better. AS and B6 can co-exist just fine but their route networks from LAX will likely overlap less and less over time.

AS Flyer

But won't routes like LAX-SFO/LAS/SEA/AUS/SLC dilute those yields that were boosted by Mint on LAX-JFK/SFO/FLL? You said they won't "waste a lot of time adding short West Coast trips that have rock bottom fares" but that's exactly what they're doing when they move over their portfolio of LGB flights to LAX. Simply doing better than LGB isn't going to make these flights profitable. Any adds they make need to be cash positive adds. No airline can afford to bleed money right now trying to establish themselves in a market. B6 may have captured a bit of the premium transcon market from LAX but adding a bunch of flights to already saturated short haul markets by established carriers along the west coast isn't necessarily a recipe for success.

cmd320

What makes you think these flights weren’t profitable at LGB?

jrl767

uh, maybe the fact that B6 is abandoning LGB?

AS Flyer

I honestly don't know whether they were or not but if they were I would suspect they would continue to operate them. Conversely, what leads you to believe they were?

eponymous_coward

Nobody is going to be flying B6 to connect at LAX for shorthaul to someplace like SEA or LAS when they can take the nonstop out of JFK/BOS/FLL, unless there are big price breaks. If B6 has to cannibalize their nonstop demand on the rest of the West Coast by attractively pricing one-stops to put butts in seats on their LAX shorthaul routes, that's a big fat fail.

LAX is pretty much the dumbest possible place to put a connecting hub to send people up the West Coast from the East Coast. Even PHX is better.

If they're going to make LAX work, it's going to be local traffic, maybe some Hawaii-Mexico-Central America connecting traffic (but from where?), but even then it makes no g*d*mn sense to route JFK pax to LAX first for a lot of this traffic. It's even sort of dumb for Cabo. I mean, OK, Hawaii... but how important is running a one stop to Hawaii out of JFK plus fighting everyone and their uncle for local traffic share at LAX vs. owning JFK-Carribbean traffic or flying to Europe?

Also:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblu...t-realignment/

Cranky promises a full post Monday, so I guess he'll share his full opinion on why he thinks this is stupid. I guess we'll see how Mint makes everything awesome or not.

cmd320

That doesn't mean the flights were unprofitable. B6 is leaving LGB because of how restrictive the airport and municipality are there. There is no room for B6 to grow its operation which they're clearly interested in doing.

JFK and BOS, yes there would be no point of connecting via LAX when the Mint product is already in service to SEA or LAS on a nonstop. But from South Florida the only options with a lie flat are a single daily AA flight to LAX from MIA or B6 from FLL to LAX/SFO. I would definitely fly FLL-LAX-SEA, FLL-LAX-LAS, or FLL-LAX-RNO upon needing to travel to one of those cities.

eponymous_coward

https://crankyflier.com/2020/01/20/j...e-band-aid-off.

"We'll cut service that's profitable"... said no airline ever.

Sure, but if there was lots and lots of lie-flat demand to SEA or LAS from South Florida, don't you think B6 would actually fly Mint on those routes?

Also, right now LAX-SEA service is 1x. Not well timed for a connection either. Frankly you'd be better off connecting at JFK, which DOES have multiple options for connections (though it's still going to turn 5-6 hours of flying into 11-13, I guess you must really like lie-flats if you're going to spend that long flying and connecting on an airline that doesn't do lounges).

cmd320

There have been plenty of cases of this happening when an airline wants to consolidate at one airport.


Possibly, but they currently lack the aircraft to do it.

Poor timing is another issue and one that can hopefully be resolved at a later time. I already do the JFK transfer sometimes when flying to SEA, the reality is I'm going to have a connection going to SEA anyway in most cases. I'd rather take a little extra time and have a lie flat than suffer through DL's sardine can domestic F on their 739 for 5 hours from ATL.

eponymous_coward

They've been cutting LGB since way before they started a move to LAX. It just hasn't worked for them.

To give you an idea about why shorthaul at LAX may not be a winner for B6... let's try WN. One of the biggest airlines at LAX. Guess how many nonstops they fly LAX-SEA?

If you guessed "zero" you're a winner. That should tell you how amazing the shorthaul market is in an airport where everyone and their cousin flies the same route, so nobody has pricing power on a lot of routes. WN, one of the largest airlines serving LAX, won't even touch a top 10 destination from LAX.

I find it really hard to believe that B6 is going to rule the world on routes where they have anywhere from 4-6 competing nonstops, either on connecting traffic or on local traffic.

I can relate to DL F being tight, AS F was similarly tight before the VX acquisition. Now not so much. 40"-41" is best in class for domestic recliners. Not particularly great if you insist on lie-flat though.