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Would Carlsbad make sense for Alaska turboprops?

Would Carlsbad make sense for Alaska turboprops?

Old Jun 8, 20, 10:18 am
  #1  
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Would Carlsbad make sense for Alaska turboprops?

I was just thinking about this once Alaska joins One World. Back in the day, American, United and then America West all flew out of Carlsbad. American flew props to LAX as did United. American left Carlsbad and then America West started flying props to Phoenix.

The runway is not long enough for the jets that American and United now use but Alaska still operates turbo props. Flights to LAX could continue on Alaska, American or other partners. Flights to Phoenix could connect on American.

I know it's probably just wishful thinking but interested in other's thoughts on this. I live 5 minutes from CLD and would love service to return.
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Old Jun 8, 20, 11:01 am
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what you would love for the sake of convenience and what AS might view as making operational/economic sense are two very different things ... I don't really know if the economics of turboprops have changed that radically in the past ~10 years, but if AA/UA/HP couldn't make their 37-seaters (Saab 340, Embraer 120, and Dash-8-100 respectively) work, I seriously doubt that AS would be able to justify the 76-seat Q400
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Old Jun 8, 20, 11:29 am
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
what you would love for the sake of convenience and what AS might view as making operational/economic sense are two very different things ... I don't really know if the economics of turboprops have changed that radically in the past ~10 years, but if AA/UA/HP couldn't make their 37-seaters (Saab 340, Embraer 120, and Dash-8-100 respectively) work, I seriously doubt that AS would be able to justify the 76-seat Q400
Especially when it would require establishing a new station just 35 miles away from SAN, all in the midst of major economic downturn due to COVID which has hit airlines especially hard. Don't see this happening.
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Old Jun 8, 20, 4:17 pm
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So, let's see:

- AS is burning almost $200 million in cash a month (they're trying to get it to 0), and they're actively cutting routes and stations to try to get to $0 cash burn.
- AS doesn't serve LAX or PHX from the actual larger station in the San Diego area (SAN).
- AS would only be getting a codeshare slice of a ticket like CLD-LAX/PHX-ORD done with AA, so expecting codeshare revenue on onestops to make a station like that work... yeah, serious wishful thinking.
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Old Jun 8, 20, 9:54 pm
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I think United would be the airline most likely to bring back CLD-LAX service, but I don't expect it to happen. San Diego County spent a lot money building a new terminal building and long-term parking lot (probably mostly FAA grant funded) shortly before United pulled out. It is a shame.

In one sense, United did not quit; whatever commuter airline flew the route for United could not keep it going because the turbo props were retired and also not enough pilots to staff other needed routes. United made money on Carlsbad. Fares started at $200 rt and the planes were full.
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Old Jun 9, 20, 7:19 am
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Originally Posted by Bowgie View Post
I think United would be the airline most likely to bring back CLD-LAX service, but I don't expect it to happen. San Diego County spent a lot money building a new terminal building and long-term parking lot (probably mostly FAA grant funded) shortly before United pulled out. It is a shame.

In one sense, United did not quit; whatever commuter airline flew the route for United could not keep it going because the turbo props were retired and also not enough pilots to staff other needed routes. United made money on Carlsbad. Fares started at $200 rt and the planes were full.
Pre 9/11 United had ten flights a day out of Carlsbad. Then it went to three and just wasn't worth it sitting in LA for multiple hours waiting for a connection. I enjoyed when America West was doing it because Phoenix was their main hub. Wishful thinking on my part.
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Old Jun 9, 20, 8:55 am
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I have family right down the road from CLD and it's always surprised me that the area has never regained commercial air service. The area has grown dramatically in the last 20 years and there's quite a large business base nearby, not to mention it's fairly affluent. SAN and SNA are both a lengthy drive from northern San Diego County. I'm not sure it makes sense for AS to start this service but I'm surprised another carrier has not given it a try. That being said, the NIMBYs in the area don't like the noise of jets so turboprop service would likely be the only option.
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Old Jun 9, 20, 9:00 am
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Originally Posted by CurbedEnthusiasm View Post
I'm not sure it makes sense for AS to start this service but I'm surprised another carrier has not given it a try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califo...cific_Airlines
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Old Jun 9, 20, 9:25 am
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Now that Contour Air has an interline with AA, I would imagine they would be in the poll position to start something at CLD, probably to PHX, since they are already flying PHX-Page. It seems like they've been doing a decent job of making secondary routes work. We are very happy to have SMF-SBA/PSP, on jets nonetheless, even though both are currently suspended. Hopefully they come back.

Last edited by PV_Premier; Jun 9, 20 at 9:43 am
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Old Jun 9, 20, 9:26 am
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
We've had a number of independent airlines try and fail here. California Pacific never got off the ground. There was another one that started service to LAX and was going to add Las Vegas. They burned up all their cash on the LAX route. They should have started the Vegas route first.

United and American would be the best choices but they don't fly turboprops anymore.

I can see the runway from my balcony. Those days were nice when it was a 5 minute ride to the airport. It's pretty easy getting to SAN these days with no traffic but it is a long ride home if you land around rush hour.
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Old Jun 9, 20, 11:56 am
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
I know about them. Not one bit surprised that a small start-up with a highly limited network would fail. CLD needs a major carrier that can feed into a bigger route network.
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Old Jun 9, 20, 12:17 pm
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Originally Posted by buzglyd View Post
I was just thinking about this once Alaska joins One World. Back in the day, American, United and then America West all flew out of Carlsbad. American flew props to LAX as did United. American left Carlsbad and then America West started flying props to Phoenix.

The runway is not long enough for the jets that American and United now use but Alaska still operates turbo props. Flights to LAX could continue on Alaska, American or other partners. Flights to Phoenix could connect on American.

I know it's probably just wishful thinking but interested in other's thoughts on this. I live 5 minutes from CLD and would love service to return.
if this was to happen...my guess it would be SFO flights.

If they decided to do set up an intra California horizon division including Nevada and parts of Arizona.


other plaves alska doesnít fly to...I donít know their past history.....Colorado ski cities, Casper, Wyoming, Idaho falls. I have also wondered if they expanded around Denver and had horizon run off of there.
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Old Jun 9, 20, 12:23 pm
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Originally Posted by CurbedEnthusiasm View Post
I know about them. Not one bit surprised that a small start-up with a highly limited network would fail. CLD needs a major carrier that can feed into a bigger route network.
Sure, but AS has never really been about “hey, we’re going to feed someone else’s hub and settle for 10% of the ticket as a codeshare” when it comes to starting stations. They are just as much about point to point as California Pacific was. AS’s network out of SFO/LAX isn’t some kind of amazeballs.
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Old Jun 9, 20, 2:15 pm
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Actually AS is going to introduce both Carlsbad and TIW (Tacoma Narrows Airport). Service will be on the 737Max with the new social distance interior (F-1x1, Y-2x2). Tickets for TIW-SEA start at only $50. Oh wait I was dreaming........
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Old Jun 9, 20, 2:52 pm
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lol

back in 1966, West Coast Airlines offered "Jet Bus Service" between PDX and BFI aboard a 40-passenger Fairchild F-27 turboprop ... the five flights made a five-minute stop at TIW (they didn't actually sell tix for TIW-BFI, but the segment was available for purchase as part of an itinerary connecting to eastern Washington or other points on their system

source of the screenshot (p.6 of the timetable)
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