Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Alaska Airlines | Mileage Plan
Reload this Page >

AS Requires Passengers to Wear Face Masks (TSA Extends to 1/18/2022)

AS Requires Passengers to Wear Face Masks (TSA Extends to 1/18/2022)

Old May 11, 2020, 7:30 pm
  #61  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Shore of Lake Michigan; Formerly SEA
Programs: AS MVPG | oneworld Sapphire
Posts: 578
Originally Posted by SEA777GUY
I have issue with AS forcing me to wear a mask, but I will comply. Those in the back are not supposed to use the F cabin Restroom, but they do anyway.....
I have some knee-jerk respones to that part of your post that I recognize as just that: "Yeah but" knee-jerk reactions

Originally Posted by SEA777GUY
....A few return to gate or diversions is going to quash the mask requirement.
To that, I want to say, "OR they will solidify reinforcement or policing of the mask requirement....",

but I don't think that's how it will go. "We are going to emergency land this LAX/BOS flight because 2A refuses to put a mask back on after the snack box."

Nope. I don't see that happening. "Security theater," someone called it. Though I don't like it, I think that's about right.
SEA777GUY likes this.
Ford Fairlane is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 8:44 pm
  #62  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AS, UA, WN, IHG Diamond Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, CET 7*
Posts: 3,266
Originally Posted by nomiiiii
Yes I understand that masks are to be considerate to other people around you because you might be an asymptomatic carrier.

I still disagree with the policy because like many selfish Americans I am inconsiderate to others also if it means draconian mandates. If corporate PR require it, I am happy that the enforcement is light. Crews have been running fine for last 2 months since the lockdowns, but yes if they refuse to fly and that starts impacting travel I can change my mind. For now, light enforcement is fine.

Travel is inherently risky, whether it is by air or road, so people can take their own risks to be around inconsiderate selfish people. Or fly private. I've seen lots of complaints from flyertalkers about how other pax behave, from gross toenail clipping to dangerous behavior around not putting their phones in airplane mode. Add mask-behavior to the same list.

In general, even with the light mask enforcement, I felt 100x safer on the flight compared to grocery shopping over the weekend.
Really?! Tell that to the HUNDREDS, if not thousands (the hundreds were confirmed in early April by the Transport Workers Union, I have no idea what the current # is, but it's certainly not decreased) of Flight Attendants and Pilots who've contracted this virus.

I hate wearing a mask too, who doesn't, but I won't leave the house without one on. AS needs to fully enforce this policy, and if that requires a return to the gate or a diversion, so be it.
NoLaGent is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 8:44 pm
  #63  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,809
Originally Posted by sullim4
Except, in asymptomatic people, both handling used masks and re-using dirty masks (which everyone is doing nowadays, due to the material shortages) may be worse than no mask at all. Asian manufacturers are shipping a bunch of supplies overseas to the US and no one knows whether they live up to the claims on the side of the box. The CDC waffled on the issue as well.

I don't know if they help or hurt, and I don't think most of these airlines know, either. There are some studies that show a benefit, many show a slight benefit, and a few that show it's actually worse if the mask doesn't sufficiently filter smaller particles, like an N95 would. Alaska made a decision to mandate them, and that's fine. But the blanket statement by some here that it's irresponsible not to wear one is just not rooted in scientific fact - it doesn't take into account whether the mask is properly used, whether it is clean, whether it has been manufactured the right way, or whether the evidence shows that these things provide any meaningful benefit for people who exhibit no symptoms, who should hopefully be making up 100% of the plane's occupancy.
I appreciate a reasoned conversation, but I disagree that a often-handled, reused mask is worse than none at all in this respect: I can control surface contamination by washing my hands, not touching my face, and sanitizing surfaces before touching them. I cannot control someone sneezing aerosolized virus in my breathing radius. If nothing else, any covering reduces the range of transmittal.
flytoeat is offline  
Old May 12, 2020, 3:12 am
  #64  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Let me check my Logbook
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards; AAdvantage; Alaska Mileage Plan; Wyndham Rewards; Choice Hotels
Posts: 2,345
Originally Posted by NoLaGent
Really?! Tell that to the HUNDREDS, if not thousands (the hundreds were confirmed in early April by the Transport Workers Union, I have no idea what the current # is, but it's certainly not decreased) of Flight Attendants and Pilots who've contracted this virus.

I hate wearing a mask too, who doesn't, but I won't leave the house without one on. AS needs to fully enforce this policy, and if that requires a return to the gate or a diversion, so be it.
This begs the question: If a passenger ends up developing breathing difficulties because of wearing the mask for a period of time (some people may be able to tolerate masks longer than others) say the passenger wears the mask but develops breathing difficulties mid-flight (e.g. a transcon or midcon flight) and takes the mask off what are the chances of the flight being diverted to offload the passenger? And imagine the PR nightmare. Diversions are expensive.
Loose Cannon is offline  
Old May 12, 2020, 10:23 am
  #65  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,939
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
This begs the question: If a passenger ends up developing breathing difficulties because of wearing the mask for a period of time (some people may be able to tolerate masks longer than others) say the passenger wears the mask but develops breathing difficulties mid-flight (e.g. a transcon or midcon flight) and takes the mask off what are the chances of the flight being diverted to offload the passenger? And imagine the PR nightmare. Diversions are expensive.
This won't happen - no airline is going to divert a plane because someone refuses to put a mask on. That said, I also don't think many people are going to experience legitimate "breathing difficulties" because they're being forced to wear a mask. I HATE wearing the masks. Absolutely loathe it. I find myself starting to breath a little more rapidly after first putting it on, it fogs up my glasses and makes my face hot. All of those things are inconvenient and make it uncomfortable but none of those things cause "breathing difficulties". It's not optimal - I see all sides of this issue but the number of people that will truly have "breathing difficulties" because they have the mask on is probably smaller than the number of people that actually, legitimately can not function without an emotional support pet.
Eastbay1K and anteater like this.
AS Flyer is offline  
Old May 12, 2020, 4:01 pm
  #66  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: AS 100K
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by sullim4
Except, in asymptomatic people, both handling used masks and re-using dirty masks (which everyone is doing nowadays, due to the material shortages) may be worse than no mask at all. Asian manufacturers are shipping a bunch of supplies overseas to the US and no one knows whether they live up to the claims on the side of the box. The CDC waffled on the issue as well.

I don't know if they help or hurt, and I don't think most of these airlines know, either. There are some studies that show a benefit, many show a slight benefit, and a few that show it's actually worse if the mask doesn't sufficiently filter smaller particles, like an N95 would. Alaska made a decision to mandate them, and that's fine. But the blanket statement by some here that it's irresponsible not to wear one is just not rooted in scientific fact - it doesn't take into account whether the mask is properly used, whether it is clean, whether it has been manufactured the right way, or whether the evidence shows that these things provide any meaningful benefit for people who exhibit no symptoms, who should hopefully be making up 100% of the plane's occupancy.
I'm not a fan of mask policies because they are complete nonsense. I will wear a mask to enter places that require them.

It's all theater. I work in healthcare and am WELL versed in infection control. It's my life 40 hours a week for the last 15 years. My experience is with PPE, aseptic technique, decontamination procedures, and standard precautions. Even in hospitals it doesn't work 100% of the time. Hell, even in a controlled environment like an OR there are still misses and these are all PROFESSIONALS that know what to do and have the proper training.

Placing dozens or hundreds of ordinary public people in an enclosed tube, in close quarters, in a completely uncontrolled environment (as far as infection control goes) without training and practice in PPE, aseptic technique, and standard precautions and expecting some masks to protect everyone is laughable. Knee jerk reaction for sure, but I gather it's to garner more business than anything. If people feel safe (as opposed to actually being safe), then they're more likely to fly and give airlines their money again. I especially love the "wear your mask, but if you want to eat or drink then it's okay to remove it for that duration". Once every passenger removes their mask for 10 minutes to drink water and eat a snack, any possible benefit is completely eradicated. Imagine being in a contagious patient's (with TB, MRSA, Norovirus, COVID, or any other contagion) room (who also wear a mask) and being told you can take your PPE off to eat or drink. Yeah, it doesn't work like that. Meanwhile, you're touching the same surfaces that many other passengers touched before you and you are pinning your hopes on environmental staff that you hope cleaned the plane thoroughly and actually got every surface. Also, are kids 12 years old and younger somehow magically NOT contagious if they have COVID?

If 100 non COVID passengers board a plane and 1 kid also boards that has COVID, you just completely rendered that policy useless.

Folks that think these policies have any significance in protecting them are kidding themselves. Want to be safe and actually reduce your risk.....STAY HOME. It's that simple. Otherwise, go out and know you're accepting the risk. All the masks, hand washing, and purel in the world aren't going to prevent you from getting it if you actually come into contact with a person or surface that has COVID. There's a reason relatives aren't being allowed to have contact or even be in the same room as patients with COVID. Lack of training and practice in PPE as well as ease of infection apply to those family members just as well as the general public.
Rare, SEA777GUY, rune87 and 2 others like this.
clarrkkent is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 10:23 am
  #67  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: PNW
Programs: AS100k,Hilton Diamond ,IHG Platinum,Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 21
Mask requirement

Isn't the objective to miminize risk please correct me if my assumuption is incorrect
anteater likes this.
Timeforachange is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 10:50 am
  #68  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: On a plane or a beach
Programs: Yes
Posts: 3,080
Originally Posted by Timeforachange
Isn't the objective to miminize risk please correct me if my assumuption is incorrect
Exactly. Analogy..

Wearing protection during intercourse some of the time is better than not at all, thought at as good as all the time or abstaining in terms of pregnancy.

It doesnt work all of the time either so might as well not use it! /s

Last edited by anteater; May 13, 2020 at 12:11 pm
anteater is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 12:08 pm
  #69  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: Alaska MM, AA MM, BA Silver, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold
Posts: 312
I don't disagree with clarkkent but how is this any different than the continued changes to TSA procedures? They may not prevent a future attack but may reduce it. However, in my opinion, the changes seem mainly in place to make it appear that we are making efforts to stop terrorism. (I refer to the on-going tests that seem to freely be able to get weapons etc. through airport security.) I see the mask requirement being no different. If you want to fly during the pandemic, wear a mask. No different than if you want to fly, wear your seat belt, don't smoke, put your phone in airplane mode etc. Wearing a mask or not has become a political statement. Get over it or don't fly.
Klrduks is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 1:14 pm
  #70  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,606
Looks like there won't be any actual enforcement of wearing masks in-flight

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2...-leaked-memos/

This lines up with my in-flight experience a couple of days ago - no actual enforcement if people took off their masks once the plane started flying. Given the lack of enforcement, mask-wearing will officially enter the same security theater as all other TSA rules.
nomiiiii is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 2:05 pm
  #71  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
Originally Posted by clarrkkent

It's my life 40 hours a week for the last 15 years. My experience is with PPE, aseptic technique, decontamination procedures, and standard precautions.
With your 15 years of experience, I would appreciate you answering 2 questions.

1) Does wearing a face covering reduce the volume of droplets expelled during a cough or sneeze?
2) Does wearing a face covering reduce the distance any droplets may travel when expelled during a cough or a sneeze?

Yes or No only please!

Thank you.

James
AS Flyer, Klrduks and pcoll like this.

Last edited by Flying for Fun; May 13, 2020 at 11:17 pm
Flying for Fun is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 4:53 pm
  #72  
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,251
Originally Posted by dayone
Moderator Note: Please check that your posts relate to AS and its mask policy, not mask wearing in general or COVID-19. There are threads on other FT forums where such subjects are being discussed. A few off-topic posts have been deleted. Thanks.

dayone, AS Moderator.
A reminder.
dayone is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 7:12 pm
  #73  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,343
The AS policy would make me feel more comfortable about resuming flying IF and only if AS would agree to block the middle seats in every Economy row, and the aisle seats in the regional jets (which are 2-2 across in E) and the F cabins. I can live with someone behind me or in front of me, but not right next to me.
AndyPatterson is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 10:43 pm
  #74  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by AndyPatterson
The AS policy would make me feel more comfortable about resuming flying IF and only if AS would agree to block the middle seats in every Economy row, and the aisle seats in the regional jets (which are 2-2 across in E) and the F cabins. I can live with someone behind me or in front of me, but not right next to me.
They've been doing that for like a month already. On 2-2 RJs the aisle seats are all blocked, on 3-3 mainline jets the middles are all blocked. F occupancy is capped at 50% and based on my last flight about a month ago, I think they'll rearrange F at the gate to not put people who aren't on the same PNR in adjacent seats.

ETA: in flight service changes
chrisl137 is offline  
Old May 13, 2020, 10:55 pm
  #75  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Shore of Lake Michigan; Formerly SEA
Programs: AS MVPG | oneworld Sapphire
Posts: 578
Inasfar as it relates to AS and its mask policy, given the general news and the specific description that ctporter gave of a flight, I think I'd feel only slightly safer wearing a mask than I would wearing an [American] football helmet and a condom instead.

And an adjustment in terminology: It's not security theater; it's security farce.
sunil and SimonT007 like this.

Last edited by Ford Fairlane; May 14, 2020 at 6:26 am
Ford Fairlane is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.