Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Alaska Airlines | Mileage Plan
Reload this Page >

AS Requires Passengers to Wear Face Masks (TSA Extends to 1/18/2022)

AS Requires Passengers to Wear Face Masks (TSA Extends to 1/18/2022)

Old May 11, 2020, 2:08 pm
  #46  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,334
Originally Posted by SEA737
I think it's to be expected that this won't be super smooth from the get go. My guess is that in a few weeks AS and other airline frontline employees will enforce more strictly (and follow the rules themselves), because it'll always take some time for 1) pax to actually know the rules, 2) a twitter-rant-goes-media-story, and 3) employees to be *gently reminded* to enforce. There'll always be the holdouts, but you can bet there will be some serious form of onboard shaming when most everyone actually has a mask onboard.
All it will take is one or two flights to divert or return to origin due to non-compliant passengers to stop the nonsense. Don't like the policy? Don't fly. I hate wearing the masks. But, I do. I also may be under the same insane delusion that I might not be an asymptomatic carrier. But I'm not under the insane delusion that you might not be. So we all go kumbaya and wear our masks.
Eastbay1K is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 2:10 pm
  #47  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,334
Originally Posted by nomiiiii
Well, Alaska Airlines, if you are reading this ... I will simply shift my flying to other airlines if you become too draconian about the mask policy. I find the current security theater policy for PR purposes perfectly acceptable because it puts the responsibility on individuals who want to mask up to do so without putting the onerous requirement on others.

All my flying is purely optional and leisure also.

The sentiments run both ways in this country, I don't think airlines can choose to be too draconian on this. Specially if someone is choosing to optionally fly for leisure during coronatimes, they typically have a higher risk tolerance.
This has nothing to do with "both ways" sentiments. The masks aren't for your safety. They are for the safety of the crew, and your fellow passengers. Who are you going to fly when all the crew refuses to fly because of "draconian policy" when their crewmates are intubated?
ACBLtd, lb8001, jinglish and 1 others like this.
Eastbay1K is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 2:28 pm
  #48  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,606
Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
This has nothing to do with "both ways" sentiments. The masks aren't for your safety. They are for the safety of the crew, and your fellow passengers. Who are you going to fly when all the crew refuses to fly because of "draconian policy" when their crewmates are intubated?
Yes I understand that masks are to be considerate to other people around you because you might be an asymptomatic carrier.

I still disagree with the policy because like many selfish Americans I am inconsiderate to others also if it means draconian mandates. If corporate PR require it, I am happy that the enforcement is light. Crews have been running fine for last 2 months since the lockdowns, but yes if they refuse to fly and that starts impacting travel I can change my mind. For now, light enforcement is fine.

Travel is inherently risky, whether it is by air or road, so people can take their own risks to be around inconsiderate selfish people. Or fly private. I've seen lots of complaints from flyertalkers about how other pax behave, from gross toenail clipping to dangerous behavior around not putting their phones in airplane mode. Add mask-behavior to the same list.

In general, even with the light mask enforcement, I felt 100x safer on the flight compared to grocery shopping over the weekend.
nomiiiii is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 2:31 pm
  #49  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AS 100K, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by nomiiiii
Yes I understand that masks are to be considerate to other people around you because you might be an asymptomatic carrier.

I still disagree with the policy because like many selfish Americans I am inconsiderate to others also if it means onerous mandates, and if corporate PR require it, I am happy that the enforcement is light. Crews have been running fine for last 2 months since the lockdowns, but yes if they refuse to fly and that starts impacting travel I can change my mind. For now, light enforcement is fine.

Travel is inherently risky, whether it is by air or road, so people can take their own risks to be around inconsiderate selfish people. Or fly private. I've seen lots of complaints from flyertalkers about how other pax behave, from gross toenail clipping to dangerous behavior around not putting their phones in airplane mode. Add mask-behavior to the same list.

In general, even with the light mask enforcement, I felt 100x safer on the flight compared to grocery shopping over the weekend.
I don't think people with that attitude will be missed onboard as soon as they start enforcing more strictly and you choose not to fly.
anteater likes this.
SEA737 is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 2:36 pm
  #50  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: On a plane or a beach
Programs: Yes
Posts: 3,076
Flying is a privilege and not a right. If you want to exercise your freedom to not be socially responsible then dont fly.
ACBLtd likes this.
anteater is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 2:58 pm
  #51  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: LAX
Programs: AS MVPG, IHG Diamond Elite
Posts: 1,442
Originally Posted by nomiiiii
I've seen lots of complaints from flyertalkers about how other pax behave, from gross toenail clipping to dangerous behavior around not putting their phones in airplane mode. Add mask-behavior to the same list.
While toenail clipping is gross and not putting your phone in airplane mode might lead to some annoying notification alerts upon descent (and yes, of course, the "danger" it presents to in-flight nav systems that has never actually caused a significant issue..), I find this to be on quite a different list. Neither of those other "annoying" things could put you or a family member you see a few days later, or someone else you pass in the grocery store a week later on their death bed. There are plenty of sources out there showing the usefulness of masks worn by all to significantly reduce the spread of this virus, but its about protecting others - not protecting yourself. You don't get to decide that your risk tolerance is higher, and allow yourself to put others at risk on your behalf (remember the mask protects others, not you). Airlines surely are doing this to try to keep crews and passengers healthy and to make the case that some increase in flying could occur without seeing spikes in cases traveling around the country/world.

I think its only a matter of time before every airline in the country, if not globally, follows suit on this requirement, so private flying or driving may be all that you have as options.
be_rettSEA is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 4:37 pm
  #52  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
As a passenger, I want everyone else wearing masks, from the AS employees, to the other passengers, other than the limited eating and drinking times. This isn't security theater. It is AS health policy. It needs to enforce its policy. (I'm not going to spew further on this, because it will go too far OT). If I choose to fly AS during this policy, I, as well as everyone, should expect it to be enforced.
Until a Federal law is passed requiring this use of masks in airport and on aircraft and you give TSA and airport police enforcement rights, and people stop being even admitted past airport security without a mask on, this policy is going nowhere. Masks can be required at all times beyond airport security including when on the plane, and enforceable by fines or arrest, or not.

I see these mask rules flat out disappearing with in a few weeks. Nobody is taking these rules seriously. Numerous people wear masks improperly and these improperly worn masks are causing more harm than good dangling around people's necks or on but not even covering their noses. Whole Foods in my area already did a shift, last week they generously handed masks at the door and said masks are required. This weekend I was told it was "voluntary" and most were not wearing masks inside anymore when I went in.

It is too difficult to breathe with a mask on for many people. Those crew who had masks off probably had trouble breathing with the masks on.

AS needs to hand masks to every passenger at the beginning of the flight. You board, here you go, here is a mask, which you are required to wear for the duration of the flight. Period. And you wear THAT mask. Not your own dirty mask which was last cleaned who knows when, which you have touched who knows how many times, etc. These personal masks are disgusting and unsanitary. The clean mask AS provides ensures everyone has a sanitary mask and is not bringing/spreading germs with a personal filthy mask. Next flight, AS provides you a new clean mask. Same goes for crew.
storewanderer is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 4:49 pm
  #53  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Originally Posted by be_rettSEA
While toenail clipping is gross and not putting your phone in airplane mode might lead to some annoying notification alerts upon descent (and yes, of course, the "danger" it presents to in-flight nav systems that has never actually caused a significant issue..), I find this to be on quite a different list. Neither of those other "annoying" things could put you or a family member you see a few days later, or someone else you pass in the grocery store a week later on their death bed. There are plenty of sources out there showing the usefulness of masks worn by all to significantly reduce the spread of this virus, but its about protecting others - not protecting yourself. You don't get to decide that your risk tolerance is higher, and allow yourself to put others at risk on your behalf (remember the mask protects others, not you). Airlines surely are doing this to try to keep crews and passengers healthy and to make the case that some increase in flying could occur without seeing spikes in cases traveling around the country/world.

I think its only a matter of time before every airline in the country, if not globally, follows suit on this requirement, so private flying or driving may be all that you have as options.
And what good is it when most of the passengers are taking the mask on and off to consume food and beverage in flight? For the mask to work, it has to be KEPT ON 100% OF THE TIME.

The mask is useful if it is a CLEAN MASK and worn PROPERLY (meaning actually kept on 100% of the time, and covering 100% of the mouth and face - no exceptions).

It would appear your only options will be private flying or driving. In those scenarios you can control the mask wearing of others around you. In a commerical aircraft where food and beverage are being pro-actively handed out or allowed to be brought on board, this is out of your hands; those masks will be coming off and on throughout flight, and you are at a huge risk of spread because of it. Don't forget that last passenger who has been touching their face to take the mask on and off who sat in the row before you; touched the top of the seat as they got in/out, touched that luggage storage area above the seat, lots of germs going on there, huge risks.

This is basically a no win situation.
storewanderer is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 5:25 pm
  #54  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by storewanderer
AS needs to hand masks to every passenger at the beginning of the flight. You board, here you go, here is a mask, which you are required to wear for the duration of the flight. Period. And you wear THAT mask. Not your own dirty mask which was last cleaned who knows when, which you have touched who knows how many times, etc. These personal masks are disgusting and unsanitary. The clean mask AS provides ensures everyone has a sanitary mask and is not bringing/spreading germs with a personal filthy mask. Next flight, AS provides you a new clean mask. Same goes for crew.
I tend to agree. I am fine wearing a mask so long as it's been scientifically shown that it's effective and that the masks themselves are clean. Based on what I've seen in the grocery store, I have to think, in many cases, it's actually worse to be wearing them. They've clearly been re-used multiple times, they have dirt and sweat marks on them, etc. It feels really close to "security theater" imo.

I honestly don't know who to believe at this point because I feel like all these agencies are in CYA mode... much like TSA and the 3-1-1 liquids rule. This study, for instance, says that the cotton masks are basically useless at preventing coughs from transmitting the disease: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342
sullim4 is online now  
Old May 11, 2020, 5:38 pm
  #55  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Shore of Lake Michigan; Formerly SEA
Programs: AS MVPG | oneworld Sapphire
Posts: 578
Originally Posted by storewanderer
And what good is it when most of the passengers are taking the mask on and off to consume food and beverage in flight? For the mask to work, it has to be KEPT ON 100% OF THE TIME.

The mask is useful if it is a CLEAN MASK and worn PROPERLY (meaning actually kept on 100% of the time, and covering 100% of the mouth and face - no exceptions)....
I've been puzzled over the allowances for "except when eating or drinking" too.

Isn't allowing removal of masks while eating or drinking like saying, "For their own protection, [American] football players are required to wear helmets, except on 3rd and goal", or "To help prevent pregnancy or transmission of STDs, condoms should be worn at all times during intercourse except when [imagine your own exception here; any should make the point]."
Ford Fairlane is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 5:52 pm
  #56  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,008
Good God people, seriously? Wear a mask, fasten your seat belt, don't use the restroom while taxiing. If it is seriously that much of an issue for you, do us all a favor and stay home!
jsguyrus is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 5:58 pm
  #57  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Shore of Lake Michigan; Formerly SEA
Programs: AS MVPG | oneworld Sapphire
Posts: 578
Originally Posted by jsguyrus
Good God people, seriously? Wear a mask, fasten your seat belt, don't use the restroom while taxiing. If it is seriously that much of an issue for you, do us all a favor and stay home!
I agree with the sentiment, but if only the solution were that simple. Until "Passenger refuses to wear a proper face mask properly" is on the same level as "Passenger rushed the cockpit door and assaulted a flight attendant," I think we're in the no-win situation referenced earlier.
Ford Fairlane is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 6:51 pm
  #58  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,803
You can argue over efficacy all you want, but the basic premise is that if someone has a covering over their nose or mouth when they sneeze or cough, it's going to help reduce transmission. When they need to remove it to eat or drink, it will be less effective, but that doesn't mean it can't be helpful the rest of the time. And libertarians, if you think your rights include being able to possibly contaminate the air around me, get over your selfish attitude. I remember when smokers used to feel the same way.
jjmadison and be_rettSEA like this.
flytoeat is online now  
Old May 11, 2020, 6:52 pm
  #59  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Worth TX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 474
I have issue with AS forcing me to wear a mask, but I will comply. Those in the back are not supposed to use the F cabin Restroom, but they do anyway. A few return to gate or diversions is going to quash the mask requirement.
SEA777GUY is offline  
Old May 11, 2020, 7:06 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by flytoeat
You can argue over efficacy all you want, but the basic premise is that if someone has a covering over their nose or mouth when they sneeze or cough, it's going to help reduce transmission. When they need to remove it to eat or drink, it will be less effective, but that doesn't mean it can't be helpful the rest of the time. And libertarians, if you think your rights include being able to possibly contaminate the air around me, get over your selfish attitude. I remember when smokers used to feel the same way.
Except, in asymptomatic people, both handling used masks and re-using dirty masks (which everyone is doing nowadays, due to the material shortages) may be worse than no mask at all. Asian manufacturers are shipping a bunch of supplies overseas to the US and no one knows whether they live up to the claims on the side of the box. The CDC waffled on the issue as well.

I don't know if they help or hurt, and I don't think most of these airlines know, either. There are some studies that show a benefit, many show a slight benefit, and a few that show it's actually worse if the mask doesn't sufficiently filter smaller particles, like an N95 would. Alaska made a decision to mandate them, and that's fine. But the blanket statement by some here that it's irresponsible not to wear one is just not rooted in scientific fact - it doesn't take into account whether the mask is properly used, whether it is clean, whether it has been manufactured the right way, or whether the evidence shows that these things provide any meaningful benefit for people who exhibit no symptoms, who should hopefully be making up 100% of the plane's occupancy.
Rare likes this.
sullim4 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.