Longest AS flight?
Dec 20, 2019, 8:06 pm
#18
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Programs: DL-Platinum / AS-PlatPro / Hyatt - Glob / Hilton-Diamond
Posts: 1,573
You're looking at it wrong. A 90 minute difference between an eastbound flight and its westbound return does not indicate a 90 minute "jet stream factor" (my term). Over simplifying:
The eastbound had a 45 minute reduction in time.
The westbound had a 45 minute gain in time.
Each flight had a "jet stream factor" of 45 mins
In the winter, the Jet Stream can blow really hard. A speed of 200mph is not unheard of.
Again over simplifying for discussion, let's say a given plane cruises at 550mph and today the Jet Stream is a steady 100mph
Flying eastbound, the pilot's airspeed indicator would read 550mph, but the plane's actual speed over the ground is 650.
If the pilot were then to turn completely around and fly westbound, the indicated airspeed would still be 550mph but the groundspeed would plummet to 450.
Same concept as above, but the 100mph wind provides a difference of 200mph. It adds up over a 5+ hour flight.
In reality, an eastbound flight will try to fly in the stream as much as possible (as well as all other eastbound flights wanting that path !!) while the westbound will want to avoid it. Either direction would most likely involve going out of the way of the shortest route so the Dispatcher (via Flight Planning software) has to carefully weigh all options.
Looking on alaskaair.com and today's (Dec20) PDX-EWR flights...
The eastbound's scheduled block time (gate to gate, though "air time" would be a better metric for this discussion) is scheduled as 5:17. The westbound is 6:20.
So we're already at 63 minutes difference in the schedule. A 90 minute difference on a "bad" day doesn't really seem that far fetched.
As for today's actuals:
Eastbound was 5:12. That's a 5 minute improvement on schedule
Westbound was 6:26. That's a 6 minute penalty from schedule.
Dec 20, 2019, 8:32 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,371
yep; it’s all about the winds at altitude ... this was AS1765 BWI-SEA on Friday the 13th
scheduled block time is 5+55; actual was 5+41
great circle distance (base mileage) is 2335; as-flown mileage was 2446
scheduled block time is 5+55; actual was 5+41
great circle distance (base mileage) is 2335; as-flown mileage was 2446
Dec 20, 2019, 10:02 pm
#20
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 246
I wouldn't dismiss the other poster's claim so quickly.
You're looking at it wrong. A 90 minute difference between an eastbound flight and its westbound return does not indicate a 90 minute "jet stream factor" (my term). Over simplifying:
The eastbound had a 45 minute reduction in time.
The westbound had a 45 minute gain in time.
Each flight had a "jet stream factor" of 45 mins
In the winter, the Jet Stream can blow really hard. A speed of 200mph is not unheard of.
Again over simplifying for discussion, let's say a given plane cruises at 550mph and today the Jet Stream is a steady 100mph
Flying eastbound, the pilot's airspeed indicator would read 550mph, but the plane's actual speed over the ground is 650.
If the pilot were then to turn completely around and fly westbound, the indicated airspeed would still be 550mph but the groundspeed would plummet to 450.
Same concept as above, but the 100mph wind provides a difference of 200mph. It adds up over a 5+ hour flight.
In reality, an eastbound flight will try to fly in the stream as much as possible (as well as all other eastbound flights wanting that path !!) while the westbound will want to avoid it. Either direction would most likely involve going out of the way of the shortest route so the Dispatcher (via Flight Planning software) has to carefully weigh all options.
Looking on alaskaair.com and today's (Dec20) PDX-EWR flights...
The eastbound's scheduled block time (gate to gate, though "air time" would be a better metric for this discussion) is scheduled as 5:17. The westbound is 6:20.
So we're already at 63 minutes difference in the schedule. A 90 minute difference on a "bad" day doesn't really seem that far fetched.
As for today's actuals:
Eastbound was 5:12. That's a 5 minute improvement on schedule
Westbound was 6:26. That's a 6 minute penalty from schedule.
You're looking at it wrong. A 90 minute difference between an eastbound flight and its westbound return does not indicate a 90 minute "jet stream factor" (my term). Over simplifying:
The eastbound had a 45 minute reduction in time.
The westbound had a 45 minute gain in time.
Each flight had a "jet stream factor" of 45 mins
In the winter, the Jet Stream can blow really hard. A speed of 200mph is not unheard of.
Again over simplifying for discussion, let's say a given plane cruises at 550mph and today the Jet Stream is a steady 100mph
Flying eastbound, the pilot's airspeed indicator would read 550mph, but the plane's actual speed over the ground is 650.
If the pilot were then to turn completely around and fly westbound, the indicated airspeed would still be 550mph but the groundspeed would plummet to 450.
Same concept as above, but the 100mph wind provides a difference of 200mph. It adds up over a 5+ hour flight.
In reality, an eastbound flight will try to fly in the stream as much as possible (as well as all other eastbound flights wanting that path !!) while the westbound will want to avoid it. Either direction would most likely involve going out of the way of the shortest route so the Dispatcher (via Flight Planning software) has to carefully weigh all options.
Looking on alaskaair.com and today's (Dec20) PDX-EWR flights...
The eastbound's scheduled block time (gate to gate, though "air time" would be a better metric for this discussion) is scheduled as 5:17. The westbound is 6:20.
So we're already at 63 minutes difference in the schedule. A 90 minute difference on a "bad" day doesn't really seem that far fetched.
As for today's actuals:
Eastbound was 5:12. That's a 5 minute improvement on schedule
Westbound was 6:26. That's a 6 minute penalty from schedule.
OK, I'm going to be pedantic. A pilots airspeed indicator will never read 550 of anything. Firstly, we measure airspeed in knots and even then the airspeed on the airspeed indicator is Indicated Airspeed which will usually be about 250-270 at typical jet cruise altitudes. Then we take this speed and a computer corrects it to get True Airspeed, the speed of the airplane relative to the air around it. For jets this is typically in the 430-460 kts range. Multiply by 1.15 for mph of 494-529 mph. That is not displayed on the airspeed indicator however.
I agree that 90 minutes is easily doable because there is another factor you haven't mentioned. All airplanes have a Long Range Cruise speed at the limits of the range of the airplanes, flights are often planned at this speed. The problem is that it's quite a bit lower than typical cruise speeds. Since you are now going even slower into a headwind you are slowed down proportionally more. You still save gas though because the extra flight time is less than the gas saved by flying at the reduced speed.
On a flight I used to operate regularly, MKE-SEA was at the limits of the range of the airplane flying it at the time. The flights typical flight time westbound was about 4 hours give or take 10 mins. One day we spent 5 hours 17 mins plugging away at Long Range Cruise into the headwind. The only alternative was a fuel stop in SLC.
Dec 20, 2019, 10:14 pm
#21
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: PDX, OGG or between the two
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 2,864
OK, I'm going to be pedantic. A pilots airspeed indicator will never read 550 of anything. Firstly, we measure airspeed in knots and even then the airspeed on the airspeed indicator is Indicated Airspeed which will usually be about 250-270 at typical jet cruise altitudes. Then we take this speed and a computer corrects it to get True Airspeed, the speed of the airplane relative to the air around it. For jets this is typically in the 430-460 kts range. Multiply by 1.15 for mph of 494-529 mph. That is not displayed on the airspeed indicator however.
I agree that 90 minutes is easily doable because there is another factor you haven't mentioned. All airplanes have a Long Range Cruise speed at the limits of the range of the airplanes, flights are often planned at this speed. The problem is that it's quite a bit lower than typical cruise speeds. Since you are now going even slower into a headwind you are slowed down proportionally more. You still save gas though because the extra flight time is less than the gas saved by flying at the reduced speed.
On a flight I used to operate regularly, MKE-SEA was at the limits of the range of the airplane flying it at the time. The flights typical flight time westbound was about 4 hours give or take 10 mins. One day we spent 5 hours 17 mins plugging away at Long Range Cruise into the headwind. The only alternative was a fuel stop in SLC.
I agree that 90 minutes is easily doable because there is another factor you haven't mentioned. All airplanes have a Long Range Cruise speed at the limits of the range of the airplanes, flights are often planned at this speed. The problem is that it's quite a bit lower than typical cruise speeds. Since you are now going even slower into a headwind you are slowed down proportionally more. You still save gas though because the extra flight time is less than the gas saved by flying at the reduced speed.
On a flight I used to operate regularly, MKE-SEA was at the limits of the range of the airplane flying it at the time. The flights typical flight time westbound was about 4 hours give or take 10 mins. One day we spent 5 hours 17 mins plugging away at Long Range Cruise into the headwind. The only alternative was a fuel stop in SLC.
Dec 20, 2019, 10:40 pm
#22
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
Wikipedia has a page for this exact question
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_flights
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_flights
Dec 20, 2019, 10:46 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,371
I’m not a pilot, but I’m reasonably sure most if not all 738/739 can make most if not all westbound TCON routes, even with a full pax/cargo load, in most if not all weather/wind conditions ... anyone who has followed this forum over the past few years knows there are more than a few reports of westbound A320s having to make fuel stops
as far as “years ago was not possible” wrt 737s ... ~1996 I was booked on a Continental 737-300 EWR-SEA; even with half a dozen VDBs, they still had to make a refueling stop in MSP ... I wound up in F on a 757 that left two hours later and arrived at about the same time, with a $300 voucher
as far as “years ago was not possible” wrt 737s ... ~1996 I was booked on a Continental 737-300 EWR-SEA; even with half a dozen VDBs, they still had to make a refueling stop in MSP ... I wound up in F on a 757 that left two hours later and arrived at about the same time, with a $300 voucher
Dec 20, 2019, 10:56 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SJC / DPS
Programs: AS G75K, UA Silver
Posts: 1,757
BOS-LAX feels like it's the longest for me. Blocked at 7h10m westbound, and in the winter, takes every bit as long. Sometimes an occasional bonus fuel stop, too! Although less of an issue now that it's 737 vs A320.
Dec 21, 2019, 12:16 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 702
I can tell you with absolute certainty that AS has never once flown ANCMIA on a nonstop basis, however.
Dec 21, 2019, 12:48 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,371
Dec 21, 2019, 1:11 am
#27
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Francisco
Programs: Alaska 75K (RIP VX), Hyatt Globalist, BonVoy Plat, National Exec
Posts: 197
My BOS-SFO on Monday was an even 7hrs on an A321neo. Offered plenty of time to sample the new wines launched in F that day 
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...215Z/KBOS/KSFO
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...215Z/KBOS/KSFO
Last edited by mixmastermark; Dec 21, 2019 at 1:23 am Reason: neo
Dec 21, 2019, 5:17 am
#28
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: STL/ORD/MCI/SAN
Programs: AA CK MM, AC SE100K, BA Gold, UA 1K, DL Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,988
Interesting that ANC-KOA is the longest! I did this flight within the last week, and it clocked in right around 6 hours. Very pleasant flight, with good lounge service prior to the flight, pre-departure beverages, pre-order recognition, and excellent service from the ANC based flight attendants. Time went by so quickly, I had no idea it was actually AS’s longest route distance-wise.
Dec 21, 2019, 8:18 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Seattle
Programs: Alaska airlines 100k
Posts: 923
OK, I'm going to be pedantic. A pilots airspeed indicator will never read 550 of anything. Firstly, we measure airspeed in knots and even then the airspeed on the airspeed indicator is Indicated Airspeed which will usually be about 250-270 at typical jet cruise altitudes. Then we take this speed and a computer corrects it to get True Airspeed, the speed of the airplane relative to the air around it. For jets this is typically in the 430-460 kts range. Multiply by 1.15 for mph of 494-529 mph. That is not displayed on the airspeed indicator however.
I agree that 90 minutes is easily doable because there is another factor you haven't mentioned. All airplanes have a Long Range Cruise speed at the limits of the range of the airplanes, flights are often planned at this speed. The problem is that it's quite a bit lower than typical cruise speeds. Since you are now going even slower into a headwind you are slowed down proportionally more. You still save gas though because the extra flight time is less than the gas saved by flying at the reduced speed.
On a flight I used to operate regularly, MKE-SEA was at the limits of the range of the airplane flying it at the time. The flights typical flight time westbound was about 4 hours give or take 10 mins. One day we spent 5 hours 17 mins plugging away at Long Range Cruise into the headwind. The only alternative was a fuel stop in SLC.
I agree that 90 minutes is easily doable because there is another factor you haven't mentioned. All airplanes have a Long Range Cruise speed at the limits of the range of the airplanes, flights are often planned at this speed. The problem is that it's quite a bit lower than typical cruise speeds. Since you are now going even slower into a headwind you are slowed down proportionally more. You still save gas though because the extra flight time is less than the gas saved by flying at the reduced speed.
On a flight I used to operate regularly, MKE-SEA was at the limits of the range of the airplane flying it at the time. The flights typical flight time westbound was about 4 hours give or take 10 mins. One day we spent 5 hours 17 mins plugging away at Long Range Cruise into the headwind. The only alternative was a fuel stop in SLC.
Dec 21, 2019, 9:12 am
#30
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 56
It seems TPG also heard about our discussion here. https://thepointsguy.com/news/longes...lines-flights/