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Weird experience regarding bumping after irrop

Weird experience regarding bumping after irrop

Old Dec 5, 19, 10:06 am
  #1  
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Weird experience regarding bumping after irrop

Yesterday I should be on AS1024 but the flight was heavily delayed so I called to ask for alternatives. The immediate AS flight after it was full, so I was put on DL249 instead.

I got the boarding pass and a seat number at the gate so I thought I am fine - not really. After one hour getting the seat number and when the flight started the boarding process they called me again and told me that they can't handle Alaska passengers any more because there are not enough seats.

I had to call the reservation again to change the flight. And most of the flights are full as expected, including AS1024, but the reservation line was able to put me on UA213. But when checking in I was told the flight is full as well. I thought I would be bumped again so I came back to the AS counters, but they told me that UA and AS are doing things differently than DL so as long as I had the boarding pass it will work out. And it was correct that I finally board the flight.

I still don't get that how DL could bump me last minute even after the seat is assigned. Are the irrop passengers treated differently? Shouldn't this be counted as idb after getting the seat assigned? And how is AS/UA different from DL on this? And it is of no surprise no one knows where my baggage is after all these mess.
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Old Dec 5, 19, 1:11 pm
  #2  
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Originally Posted by zig2 View Post
Yesterday I should be on AS1024 but the flight was heavily delayed so I called to ask for alternatives. The immediate AS flight after it was full, so I was put on DL249 instead.

I got the boarding pass and a seat number at the gate so I thought I am fine - not really. After one hour getting the seat number and when the flight started the boarding process they called me again and told me that they can't handle Alaska passengers any more because there are not enough seats.
...
I still don't get that how DL could bump me last minute even after the seat is assigned. Are the irrop passengers treated differently? Shouldn't this be counted as idb after getting the seat assigned?...
I think you're more likely to get answers to these questions in the DL forum (and I'd advise you to note that you initially posted in the Alaska forum)
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Old Dec 5, 19, 1:20 pm
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Sounds like a painful travel experience, and sorry it happened to you... but as @jrl767 pointed out the forum members on the Delta forums might be a bit more familiar with the policy of who gets bumped and how.

I know with AS, one of the factors of who is the first to get involuntarily bumped goes by check-in/confirmation order... so the last people who were checked-in are more likely to get bumped. Given the crazy state of affairs it seems likely you were probably among the last people to be put on that flight, and if it was over-sold (or in over demand due to cancellations in this case) then that seat was probably double booked.

It'd be naive to think that airline status & revenue cost of ticket also don't play a role in bumping decisions... but again, that's just speculation on my part.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 12:22 am
  #4  
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All USA airlines must file approved IDB priority rules with DOT, publish them (typically in the CoC), and follow them.

It sounds to me like AS failed to reissue your ticket and properly attach it to your PNR for the DL flight, so you never had a matching reservation and ticket. Unfortunately this wasn't discovered until it was too late to correct the problem in time for you to be able to board the DL flight.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 7:22 am
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You technically were never a normal DL confirmed passenger. You were a displaced passenger that DL was offering to let AS place on a DL flight. In this case it sounds like AS never contacted DL to make sure they could actually accommodate you. Instead they simply booked you onto the flight without ensuring it wasn't oversold. It was oversold and thus DL couldn't accommodate you.

This was an error on AS part. No IDB is due.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 8:53 am
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This really has nothing to do with DL and is an AS issue. In order to fly, you need a ticket (evidence of payment). Even if AS issued a BP, it did not apparently reissue the ticket and thus DL kept on selling, meaning that when you showed up -- without a ticket -- there was nothing to be done. While none of this is your fault, there are some measures you can take to avoid this if you are willing to be proactive:

1. AS should have checked with DL before offering you the DL flight in a very short timeframe. You can ask AS whether it has confirmed the positive space with DL.
2. If on the phone, ask the phone agent to push the e-ticket immediately and have him confirm the new number with you on the line. If in person, ask the ask the AS agent to produce a FIM of a printout of an e-FIM which you can present to DL with the BP.

Nobody likes to hold up the line, but what you went through was entirely avoidable had AS simply done its job in the first place.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 10:36 am
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
This really has nothing to do with DL and is an AS issue. In order to fly, you need a ticket (evidence of payment). Even if AS issued a BP, it did not apparently reissue the ticket and thus DL kept on selling, meaning that when you showed up -- without a ticket -- there was nothing to be done. While none of this is your fault, there are some measures you can take to avoid this if you are willing to be proactive:

1. AS should have checked with DL before offering you the DL flight in a very short timeframe. You can ask AS whether it has confirmed the positive space with DL.
2. If on the phone, ask the phone agent to push the e-ticket immediately and have him confirm the new number with you on the line. If in person, ask the ask the AS agent to produce a FIM of a printout of an e-FIM which you can present to DL with the BP.

Nobody likes to hold up the line, but what you went through was entirely avoidable had AS simply done its job in the first place.
Even a new eticket isnt a guarantee. When booking another carrier, that carrier has to confirm the space. A new ticket can be issued right away. However if the other carrier declines the reservation the passenger doesn't board. This is why it's important for agents to either call the gate handling the flight or wait for a confirmed status back before reissuing ticket.

As OP states he called to make change, I'm guessing the reservation agent didnt wait to get a confirmed status. He reissued ticket, BP was issued, and then at some point DL came back and declined the space.

None of this is OP fault, nor DLs. It falls squarely on AS.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 10:48 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
Even a new eticket isnt a guarantee. When booking another carrier, that carrier has to confirm the space. A new ticket can be issued right away. However if the other carrier declines the reservation the passenger doesn't board. This is why it's important for agents to either call the gate handling the flight or wait for a confirmed status back before reissuing ticket.

As OP states he called to make change, I'm guessing the reservation agent didnt wait to get a confirmed status. He reissued ticket, BP was issued, and then at some point DL came back and declined the space.

None of this is OP fault, nor DLs. It falls squarely on AS.
Of course, you are making assumptions and I've heard airline agents make up all sorts of excuses. AS probably booked the passengers on the DL flight...I bet the DL reservations system confirmed it. Then, the DL agents found themselves in an overbooked situation and pulled up this passenger's info and decided to see if they could sent the passenger back to AS without paying IDB. Happens all the time...and the passenger has very little recourse except to shclep back to AS customer service.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 10:56 am
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Originally Posted by formeraa View Post
Of course, you are making assumptions and I've heard airline agents make up all sorts of excuses. AS probably booked the passengers on the DL flight...I bet the DL reservations system confirmed it. Then, the DL agents found themselves in an overbooked situation and pulled up this passenger's info and decided to see if they could sent the passenger back to AS without paying IDB. Happens all the time...and the passenger has very little recourse except to shclep back to AS customer service.
Talk about assumptions. No it doesn't happen all the time that carriers decide to break the law on IDB.

What does happen all the time is the sending carrier doesn't follow the process or jumps the gun on issuing new ticket/BP.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 10:59 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
.....What does happen all the time is the sending carrier doesn't follow the process or jumps the gun on issuing new ticket/BP.
The BP was likely issued without eticket attached. Valid BP must have 13 digit eticket number printed or marked with ET or ETIX. BP without eticket attached is only valid with a paper ticket or FIM.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 1:38 pm
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Originally Posted by TerryK View Post
The BP was likely issued without eticket attached. Valid BP must have 13 digit eticket number printed or marked with ET or ETIX. BP without eticket attached is only valid with a paper ticket or FIM.
I'd be curious to know if this was the case. In my experiences, when one airline rebooks on another airline in IRROPS, if the reservation system electronically confirms it, then everything is confirmed just as if the customer had booked directly with the airline. As well, the check-in system won't spit out an electronic boarding pass unless the VCR and PNR match. But the wrinkle is indeed as you mentioned--in a situation where the PNR and VCR don't match and an agent can't get it to do so, they can generate a paper boarding pass that requires a paper document that contains the value necessary to pay for the flight (a paper ticket or a FIM, as you said). I'd be very interested to see if the OP kept his/her BP and can see what it looks like, because under normal e-ticketing circumstances, this shouldn't have occurred.

[Mod note]

As suggested by @jrl767, the OP did post over on the DL forum (Transferred to DL, but bumped again before boarding), so members are welcome to follow the discussion there for discussion from the DL perspective. I will keep this thread open in the AS forum for discussion on the AS-side of this issue.

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Old Dec 7, 19, 3:52 pm
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I can confirm that I do have a valid eticket with the reservation and it is correctly reissued.

Unfortunately DL took back the boarding pass during the bumping so I do not have it any more. I didn't expect that I could be bumped even after seat assigned so I didn't keep a photo of it .

But the agent did return an itinerary copy for me AFTER taking away the boarding pass. I am trying to attach it.



Originally Posted by jackal View Post
I'd be curious to know if this was the case. In my experiences, when one airline rebooks on another airline in IRROPS, if the reservation system electronically confirms it, then everything is confirmed just as if the customer had booked directly with the airline. As well, the check-in system won't spit out an electronic boarding pass unless the VCR and PNR match. But the wrinkle is indeed as you mentioned--in a situation where the PNR and VCR don't match and an agent can't get it to do so, they can generate a paper boarding pass that requires a paper document that contains the value necessary to pay for the flight (a paper ticket or a FIM, as you said). I'd be very interested to see if the OP kept his/her BP and can see what it looks like, because under normal e-ticketing circumstances, this shouldn't have occurred.

[Mod note]

As suggested by @jrl767, the OP did post over on the DL forum (Transferred to DL, but bumped again before boarding), so members are welcome to follow the discussion there for discussion from the DL perspective. I will keep this thread open in the AS forum for discussion on the AS-side of this issue.

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Old Dec 7, 19, 8:28 pm
  #13  
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The first attachment above looks to me like more of a reservation than a ticket.
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Old Dec 7, 19, 9:13 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
The first attachment above looks to me like more of a reservation than a ticket.
Yes, but there is a new ticket number on AS ticket stock listed. That should indicate a confirmed & ticketed reservation.

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Old Dec 7, 19, 9:57 pm
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Unless the DL flight was actually oversold, this is unlikely to go anywhere (DL will just verify the flight was not oversold and OP was bumped due to issues with ticket, not an oversale) and thus DOT IDB does not apply. Further, DOT IDB comp is based on length of delay (it's not simply a fixed amount). Since DL did not actually transport pax, they wouldn't be able to check the delay length.
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