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-   -   Holding a book in bulkhead (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan/1994381-holding-book-bulkhead.html)

jmail1 Nov 6, 2019 3:20 pm

Holding a book in bulkhead
 
I had a friend flying AS today that texted me asking if it was against the rules to hold a book in bulkhead. Evidently a FA on his flight was a bit overzealous and got into an argument with a lady sitting in F reading a book before takeoff. FA told her she needed to put the book in the overhead bin for takeoff and landing. The passenger responded that they'd always read a book and never been told to put it away. The FA responded "Well they must make more than me and can afford to be fined. Put the book in the overhead." The passenger stated that she would just put it in the magazine holder in front of her, FA denies that as well saying it must go in the overhead, nowhere else.

Is this an overaggressive interpretation of the egress rules or do you technically have to put a book away?

Yes, I know "all" crew member instructions is the rule.

jrl767 Nov 6, 2019 3:32 pm


Originally Posted by jmail1 (Post 31709258)
I had a friend flying AS today that texted me asking if it was against the rules to hold a book in bulkhead. Evidently a FA on his flight was a bit overzealous and got into an argument with a lady sitting in F reading a book before takeoff. FA told her she needed to put the book in the overhead bin for takeoff and landing. The passenger responded that they'd always read a book and never been told to put it away. The FA responded "Well they must make more than me and can afford to be fined. Put the book in the overhead." The passenger stated that she would just put it in the magazine holder in front of her, FA denies that as well saying it must go in the overhead, nowhere else.

Is this an overaggressive interpretation of the egress rules or do you technically have to put a book away?

Yes, I know "all" crew member instructions is the rule.

definitely over-aggressive, imo ... although we don't know the actual physical size of the book, so in the FA's defense that **could** have influenced the decision to enforce

nearlysober Nov 6, 2019 3:33 pm


Originally Posted by jmail1 (Post 31709258)
Is this an overaggressive interpretation of the egress rules or do you technically have to put a book away?

You have to put away whatever the flight attendant tells you to put away. It's not worth arguing with the FA, you're not going to win.

Not all books are created equal so just saying "it's a book" doesn't mean its safe. Maybe it was a giant, heavy, hardcover book and a tiny little old lady with frail arms? It'd hurt just as much as a laptop. And clearly multiple FA's have concerns about the bulkhead magazines holders ability to stop heavy object from coming loose during take-off and landing

davistev Nov 6, 2019 3:41 pm

It really depends on the title of the book. "The Joy of Sex" could elicit such a response for many many reasons I will not get into here.

MonThruThurs Nov 6, 2019 3:41 pm

She probably borrowed this. FA was totally justified if so.

https://www.washington.edu/news/2005...lay-its-spine/

NoLaGent Nov 6, 2019 3:52 pm

It could've been a large book. It could've been a nasty FA. It could've been both.

Unless your friend can describe said book in more detail, all we can do is throw darts in the dark here.

(I'm not recommending throwing darts in the bulkhead row, or any row, on a plane)

twitch76 Nov 6, 2019 4:24 pm

I once got asked to put away my iPad. I don’t think the FA was correct in asking me to do so, and I was a little annoyed (as I tend to be a person who knows and follows the rules and hates to be “corrected” in any way). However, it was easiest to just put it away.

eponymous_coward Nov 6, 2019 4:48 pm


Originally Posted by jmail1 (Post 31709258)
The passenger stated that she would just put it in the magazine holder in front of her, FA denies that as well saying it must go in the overhead, nowhere else.

The magazine holder isn't meant to hold anything other than the safety cards, informational cards, or the magazine, by rule. So you can't "put something away" there- it goes in the overhead if it has to be put away.

The announcement at the beginning of flights is "small handheld devices can be kept, larger devices must be put away". Maybe the book was similar sized to a laptop, maybe the FA was going "no book for you, come back one year". I agree that having a discussion about something nobody involved witnessed is not particularly illuminating.

notquiteaff Nov 6, 2019 5:06 pm


Originally Posted by eponymous_coward (Post 31709489)
I agree that having a discussion about something nobody involved witnessed is not particularly illuminating.

Don’t we have FAs on this forum that could perhaps share the official policy? E.g., paperback okay, hardcover goes in bin? Or perhaps there isn’t an official policy, and that would be interesting to know (though not terribly actionable because in the end the FA wins any argument at the time of travel)

Gig103 Nov 6, 2019 9:36 pm

That would have to be a heck of a book to be larger than an iPad Pro, which I'm sure passengers have used during take off and landing. The snide comment about the fine is absurd escalation too, the sort of frivolous remark we always caution Flyertalkers against when writing complaints to airline customer service.

This is all secondhand but I hope the woman involved complains to AS about it.

dayone Nov 6, 2019 9:50 pm


Originally Posted by Gig103 (Post 31710130)
I hope the woman involved complains to AS about it.

Or she could let it go.

skywardhunter Nov 7, 2019 3:36 am

Items that can become projectiles in an emergency must be stored during taxy, take-off and landing. It's a simple rule, not always enforced. Lack of consistent enforcement doesn't invalidate the rule, however.

NWAlaskaFlyer Nov 7, 2019 6:28 am


Originally Posted by twitch76 (Post 31709445)
I once got asked to put away my iPad. I don’t think the FA was correct in asking me to do so, and I was a little annoyed (as I tend to be a person who knows and follows the rules and hates to be “corrected” in any way). However, it was easiest to just put it away.

Same. I have the 12.9" which is getting into small laptop territory. I wasn't happy about it but the FA sets the rules. Given this has only happened once in dozens of flights I do feel he was over zealous but the only rule when dealing with an FA is to comply (at least when it comes to safety.)

twitch76 Nov 7, 2019 7:25 am


Originally Posted by NWAlaskaFlyer (Post 31710995)
Same. I have the 12.9" which is getting into small laptop territory. I wasn't happy about it but the FA sets the rules. Given this has only happened once in dozens of flights I do feel he was over zealous but the only rule when dealing with an FA is to comply (at least when it comes to safety.)

Mine is the Air2, which is 9.4x6.6. I do have a clamshell case with keyboard, which makes it look more like a laptop, especially if I have it in that mode. I didn’t care about the 5 minutes without my device... it’s mostly annoying to be told you’re doing something wrong when you’re pretty sure you’re not. But again, it wasn’t worth an argument.

lalala Nov 7, 2019 7:58 am

First I was thinking ..., but yes. I can see that the size of the book could be an issue - coffee table or large text book would be a no no, a trade paperback, not so much. My Taller Half (tm) reads voraciously and is usually seated in the bulkhead. She usually slides her book or e-reader between her lap and seat divider during take off. Ditto for the water bottle (in the event of the appearance of a PDB) - in which case, angels trumpet and everyone smiles for once.

Often1 Nov 7, 2019 8:19 am


Originally Posted by NWAlaskaFlyer (Post 31710995)
Same. I have the 12.9" which is getting into small laptop territory. I wasn't happy about it but the FA sets the rules. Given this has only happened once in dozens of flights I do feel he was over zealous but the only rule when dealing with an FA is to comply (at least when it comes to safety.)

FA's do not set the rules. AS sets the rules and FA's as employees, do what they are told.

That said, AS could do a better job by providing better guidance. E.g., "small laptop" is a meaningless descriptor. All it would take is to describe the dimensions and that would be the end of it.

I do subscribe to the idea that larger items ought to be stowed. These things become projectiles in an emergency and I value my health more than I value some other person's self-importance to type during landing.

HardToConcentrate Nov 7, 2019 9:30 am

I’m curious to know the size of the book. Though, pretty much anything can be a projectile in rough air or hard landings. A magazine or small paperback would be better, War and Peace.. not so much.

I’m still surprised they allow iPads. I put mine away for take off and landing. It would suck to get hit by my iPad if it goes flying during turbulence or possibly an aborted take off, or rough landing. (I know turbulence can happen without warning)

Granted, my home airport is typically bumpy to fly in and out of.

Buster Nov 7, 2019 10:32 am

In separate flights in the past, I've been made to put away a magazine and a newspaper. I was told by one FA that anyone sitting in the bulkhead must have nothing at all in their hands or laps.

czpdx Nov 7, 2019 12:15 pm


Originally Posted by Buster (Post 31711859)
In separate flights in the past, I've been made to put away a magazine and a newspaper. I was told by one FA that anyone sitting in the bulkhead must have nothing at all in their hands or laps.

I wonder if it has to do with regulations related to the airbag seatbelts found in the bulkhead seats. I know they're there in row 6; are they in row 1, too?

Allan38103 Nov 7, 2019 1:05 pm

I read on the internet that a guy heard it from a friend of his that a woman on a plane was told something by an unidentified flight attendant regarding a book.

Maybe it's true, and maybe it's not. It's really hard to respond intelligently to such a post.

Just put the book away during takeoff and landing and get on with your life.

BJM Nov 7, 2019 3:58 pm


Originally Posted by skywardhunter (Post 31710643)
Items that can become projectiles in an emergency must be stored during taxy, take-off and landing. It's a simple rule, not always enforced. Lack of consistent enforcement doesn't invalidate the rule, however.

You mean like lap children or ESAs?

michaelstant Nov 7, 2019 6:51 pm


Originally Posted by NWAlaskaFlyer (Post 31710995)
Same. I have the 12.9" which is getting into small laptop territory. I wasn't happy about it but the FA sets the rules. Given this has only happened once in dozens of flights I do feel he was over zealous but the only rule when dealing with an FA is to comply (at least when it comes to safety.)

Same thing to report here. I have the 12.9" iPad Pro and have only been asked to put it away once.

navydevildoc Nov 7, 2019 7:01 pm


Originally Posted by michaelstant (Post 31713532)
Same thing to report here. I have the 12.9" iPad Pro and have only been asked to put it away once.

I have the 10" pro with the keyboard, and I have been told more than once I can't have it in the "laptop configuration". If I just fold the keyboard underneath they are totally OK with it. Some of the FAs even agree it's stupid, but if it looks like a laptop then it's breaking the rules. If it's an iPad, it's a "small handheld device".

NWAlaskaFlyer Nov 8, 2019 8:17 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 31711398)
FA's do not set the rules. AS sets the rules and FA's as employees, do what they are told.

That said, AS could do a better job by providing better guidance. E.g., "small laptop" is a meaningless descriptor. All it would take is to describe the dimensions and that would be the end of it.

I do subscribe to the idea that larger items ought to be stowed. These things become projectiles in an emergency and I value my health more than I value some other person's self-importance to type during landing.

If only the bolded were true. We would have consistent and understandable rules, even application of PDB's, etc. What you describe is the ideal state but AS fails at either setting rules or training and FA's fail at even application.

I agree on the larger item. Once we are rolling I tuck my iPad to the side and pin it down with my elbow.

skywardhunter Nov 8, 2019 9:38 am


Originally Posted by BJM (Post 31712995)
You mean like lap children or ESAs?

Are lap children not wearing seat belts these days? Can't comment on ESAs as I don't live in the US and thus don't need to deal with that idiocy


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