No gate in SEA - AS, ATC, or...?

Old Sep 12, 19, 5:20 pm
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No gate in SEA - AS, ATC, or...?

There are a couple of other threads about ATC delays, waiting on the ramp before departure, etc., but this might be slightly different:

I bought my wife a ticket from EUG-JFK with miles. On her way back yesterday the JFK-SEA flight sat on the ground in SEA after landing because, supposedly, the gate was not ready or there was no gate available or some such thing. The CS agents stated this was an ATC delay and offered nothing. She missed her connection back to EUG and spent the night in the terminal, only making it home on standby this afternoon.

Now, a little snooping on FlightAware reveals that the airplane landed almost on time but then spent 30 minutes on the ground before reaching its gate. Meanwhile, the SEA-EUG flight pushed back three minutes early, to add insult to injury.

So it seems to me either AS bears some responsibility for this and they should make it right, or they don't. Just trying to figure out if it's even worth trying to push harder on this, or if we might need to look at avoiding SEA completely if this is how it's going to go.
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Old Sep 12, 19, 5:53 pm
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~30 min waiting for a gate at SEA on a jet arriving ~2200 is unfortunately not unusual lately ... there are about six gates out of commission due to the ongoing North Satellite renovations

I find it rather disingenuous for CS to call this “ATC” ... the JFK-SEA flight was indeed delayed on departure, but was on the ground at SEA only ~15 min behind schedule which would have permitted the connection
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Old Sep 12, 19, 6:02 pm
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I once "caught" Alaska on a continual situation....can't remember now the two airports but I had been watching on one of the sites re arrival/departure delays for about 2 months as I had a tight connection on the other end. I noted that every single week on Tuesdays the flight I was booked on was late arriving and departing to the extent that I would miss my connection down line. When I got to the first connection airport, AS CS tried to tell me it was weather at the departure airport. I said that I found it very interesting that every single Tuesday there seemed to be weather delays at a particular airport and asked if they were able to show me some sort of confirmation. It was about 10 seconds before they started organizing my hotel room at the next airport, etc. In fact, the agent smiled at me and said it appeared I did my homework and then admitted there was some sort of crew scheduling problem that just didn't seem to get fixed. Since then I never trust that AS or any other CS agent will be allowed to be honest about the cause of a delay. Seems to me to be very reasonable to request "proof" and compensation if and when they cannot show the delay doesn't qualify for help.
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Old Sep 12, 19, 9:08 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
I find it rather disingenuous for CS to call this “ATC” ... the JFK-SEA flight was indeed delayed on departure, but was on the ground at SEA only ~15 min behind schedule which would have permitted the connection
It gets even better. Assuming this is AS1063

Code:
SCHEDULE     ACTUAL     DELAY/CANCEL   ARRIVAL          
CITY  ARRV  DEPT   ARRV  DEPT   CODES          GATE            
JFK   ORIG  645P                                               
SEA   1010P TERM                                               
 
3JFK/ETD0729P 0.44L LATE ARRIVAL  *1732
4JFK/OUT0719P  0.34L  OFF0801P *1901
2SEA/ON 1028P IN 1058P *0207*FCF8AN
It's N925VA, came in on AS1022 SFO-JFK. And why was it late?...

Code:
SCHEDULE     ACTUAL     DELAY/CANCEL   ARRIVAL          
CITY  ARRV  DEPT   ARRV  DEPT   CODES          GATE            
SFO   ORIG  850A                                               
JFK   540P  TERM                                               
 
4SFO/OUT0850A  OFF0924A *1125
2JFK/ETA0615P 0.35L CREW CALLED IN  *1713
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Old Sep 12, 19, 9:41 pm
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wow

what compensation would be reasonable to request, given that (1) it was an award ticket, and (2) the affected passenger didn’t incur any costs for a hotel?

I’m very understanding of “Stuff happens” wrt IROPS and missed connections, but in this case — AS CS gave an egregiously erroneous reason for the delay — I’d probably start with asking for a refund of at least half the miles used for the one-way, plus a $200 voucher ... that said, even as a 75K, my expectation of actually getting that would be pretty low
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Old Sep 12, 19, 9:58 pm
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Originally Posted by rustykettel View Post
It gets even better. Assuming this is AS1063

Code:
SCHEDULE ACTUAL DELAY/CANCEL ARRIVAL
CITY ARRV DEPT ARRV DEPT CODES GATE
JFK ORIG 645P
SEA 1010P TERM

3JFK/ETD0729P 0.44L LATE ARRIVAL  *1732
4JFK/OUT0719P 0.34L OFF0801P *1901
2SEA/ON 1028P IN 1058P *0207*FCF8AN
It's N925VA, came in on AS1022 SFO-JFK. And why was it late?...

Code:
SCHEDULE ACTUAL DELAY/CANCEL ARRIVAL
CITY ARRV DEPT ARRV DEPT CODES GATE
SFO ORIG 850A
JFK 540P TERM

4SFO/OUT0850A OFF0924A *1125
2JFK/ETA0615P 0.35L CREW CALLED IN  *1713
CREW CALLED IN is not the delay reason - it merely tells when the ground crew was told to be ready to accept the aircraft.

Looks like the flight was late due to extended time enroute, likely due to winds or ATC.
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Old Sep 12, 19, 10:04 pm
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Originally Posted by rustykettel View Post
It gets even better. Assuming this is AS1063

Code:
SCHEDULE ACTUAL DELAY/CANCEL ARRIVAL
CITY ARRV DEPT ARRV DEPT CODES GATE
JFK ORIG 645P
SEA 1010P TERM

3JFK/ETD0729P 0.44L LATE ARRIVAL  *1732
4JFK/OUT0719P 0.34L OFF0801P *1901
2SEA/ON 1028P IN 1058P *0207*FCF8AN
It's N925VA, came in on AS1022 SFO-JFK. And why was it late?...

Code:
SCHEDULE ACTUAL DELAY/CANCEL ARRIVAL
CITY ARRV DEPT ARRV DEPT CODES GATE
SFO ORIG 850A
JFK 540P TERM

4SFO/OUT0850A OFF0924A *1125
2JFK/ETA0615P 0.35L CREW CALLED IN  *1713
Not sure what your point is—the parts you bolded contain standard nomenclature. AS1022 flew a rather circuitous route the past two days per flightaware, flying up over Canada. That would definitely qualify as ATC. And any increase in taxi time at SFO would be as well.

The wait on the tarmac in Seattle would be the only thing potentially attributable to the airline, but as others pointed out, it is not terribly unusual for late evening arrivals while this construction occurs.
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Old Sep 12, 19, 11:25 pm
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Originally Posted by sltlyamusd View Post
... AS1022 flew a rather circuitous route the past two days per flightaware, flying up over Canada. That would definitely qualify as ATC. ...
more likely an AS dispatch decision to avoid enroute weather and/or take advantage of more favorable winds
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Old Sep 13, 19, 12:10 am
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL View Post
CREW CALLED IN is not the delay reason - it merely tells when the ground crew was told to be ready to accept the aircraft.

Looks like the flight was late due to extended time enroute, likely due to winds or ATC.
Ahh, ok. Thanks for the correction.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 8:28 am
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Looking at the schedule there is exactly 60 min between the arrival of flight 1063 and the departure of the Eugene flight. That's tight knowing the Eugene flight will start boarding just slightly after you pull into the gate from JFK, if you are on time. While it is a legal connection, I would be worried about it with known delays at JFK, the ground delays at SEA, and all the construction at SEA. I probably would not have booked that connection knowing that is the last flight to Eugene.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 11:53 pm
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Well... I guess all I can say to anyone who wouldn't have booked the flight is that they must live in cities where they are far more spoiled for choice, schedule-wise. PDX is a much easier connection but AS cut their EUG-PDX schedule a couple of summers ago when the Horizon pilot shortage struck - and never added them back again. And if I'm willing to drive two hours to PDX then the AS flights won't be the first ones I pick anyway.

Compensation is a non-issue at this point; my wife has said she won't fly AS again unless forced (I left out a lot of the uglier details of her account of the entire ordeal). But to paraphrase her: people fly AS for the service and the experience, certainly not because the flight schedules or hard product or fares are better. They just aren't. When AS shows you they're willing to act just like the other guys, well, you might as well pay less and/or get the flights you really want for an equal amount of degradation.

Also: "didn't incur any costs for a hotel" is the most charming euphemism I have ever heard for spending a night on an airport floor. If a customer service agent said that to my face, I don't think it would end well for either of us.
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Old Sep 16, 19, 8:04 am
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Originally Posted by metaldirtnskin View Post
Well... I guess all I can say to anyone who wouldn't have booked the flight is that they must live in cities where they are far more spoiled for choice, schedule-wise. PDX is a much easier connection but AS cut their EUG-PDX schedule a couple of summers ago when the Horizon pilot shortage struck - and never added them back again. And if I'm willing to drive two hours to PDX then the AS flights won't be the first ones I pick anyway
For many years I was based in YKM so not exactly a hot spot of airline choices and connections. If I had a flight where I thought the connection was unworkable I would drive the two hours to Seattle instead of booking the flight. I am also amazed and the people who will "never fly Alaska again" because they missed a connection. My God, have you ever flown on another airline and tried to connect in SFO, ORD or ATL?
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Old Sep 16, 19, 8:30 am
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The OP had an unfortunate travel experience. In the future there are several non stops from PDX to NYC. If the drive from Eugene to PDX is a barrier, then use the shuttle to PDX. In addition, there are other carriers that will fly you to NYC from EUG. The cry for compensation is unwarranted. There are more hotels than you can shake a stick at at SEA TAC, why didn't the traveler go get a room rather than spending the night in the airport?
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Old Sep 16, 19, 10:16 am
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Originally Posted by bescobar View Post
The OP had an unfortunate travel experience. In the future there are several non stops from PDX to NYC. If the drive from Eugene to PDX is a barrier, then use the shuttle to PDX. In addition, there are other carriers that will fly you to NYC from EUG. The cry for compensation is unwarranted.
Nothing against the OP but I agree with bescobar. In air travel, ATC, weather, airline, aircraft maintenance and/or airport issue happens. Traveler was correct to assume there was no compensation due and decided to stay within the terminal (probably the smartest move). This was combination of ATC and airport delays. If it was other airlines......the treatment would be the same for same kind of delays. It sucks that the travel connection issue happened but that is the way it is.

Should the OP avoid flying AS? No. Every airline will have some issue, UA and AS for example, has runway delay issues at SFO.

Should the OP try to avoid flying SEA? No, unless there is better routing available. Every airport has its delay issues. SFO is plagued with current runway and ATC delays. SEA on some mornings will have fog delays. Every airport will have peak arrival and departure time but they are timed to make most flight connection possible. It's always a crapshoot to predict what will happen.

There are better timed flights to JFK-EUG than via SEA, but hard to predict until ATC issue their slots after the flight has closed its gate.

I imagine it was a mileage award availability issue. Those tickets issued with "funny money" are often not accepted by competing carriers when flight irregularity happens. Airport operations will make certain exception but often rare. OP chose AS for AS experience, route and mileage award. OP can choose another airlines but each airlines provides different experience and disappointments. (DL might have amazing irrop assistance but terrible mileage awards. WN will have terrible irrop southwest only option, but decent domestic redemption awards.....etc)

Jiburi
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Old Sep 16, 19, 10:46 am
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Originally Posted by jsguyrus View Post
For many years I was based in YKM so not exactly a hot spot of airline choices and connections. If I had a flight where I thought the connection was unworkable I would drive the two hours to Seattle instead of booking the flight. I am also amazed and the people who will "never fly Alaska again" because they missed a connection. My God, have you ever flown on another airline and tried to connect in SFO, ORD or ATL?
Precisely! I have missed so many connections in my lifetime that I've lost count. In the 80's, flying from BOS to/from SEA virtually required a connection or minimally a stop in a hub. Fortunately, I've only been stranded overnight once and DL provided a hotel because they sent our aircraft elsewhere (and couldn't blame it on weather or ATC). Stuff happens and, as a flyer, one should expect it from time to time. Out of EUG, I suspect that the OP's wife will fly AS again at some point in the future.
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