lax.sea.jnu

Agree with what everyone is saying here, but AS could provide feed to EI, BA, CX, SQ, LY, FI, and EK at EWR; none of which have a particularly great relationship with UA.

Eastbay1K

Not to mention DY pulled out all non-seasonal routes from OAK. B6 went from how many OAK/NYC flights a day to what, one red-eye?

As much as I'd love to see an OAK/NYC flight ...

ucdtim17

Larger point is fair, but some context to the above is CO left after 9/11, when airlines all over contracted. UA left when they were shrinking everywhere in the early 2010s; Scott Kirby has said they are definitely returning and the only question is timing. OAK-DFW was a new route and in AA's mind the best to temporarily sacrifice for the MAX groundings. It is scheduled to return.

But yes, just about every major airline that isn't WN has struggled to be successful at OAK (in recent years). Airline consolidation has meant more consolidation at SFO, which seems to be a positive feedback loop. Everyone else has more flights at SFO so you need more flights there too, and adding anything at OAK just undercuts your SFO service. OAK is still smaller than it was in 2007 while SFO has grown by 20+ million travelers.

Aliquot

I think DAL and STL are crazy, but OAK, although unlikely, is in the realm of possibilities. AS has shown more success than WN with transcons, has shown more interest in expanding NYC, and they do have international partners in EWR.

sfozrhfco

LOL, that is a very low bar to set. WN is not really known for its amazing long haul domestic product and has no F class. AS hasn't shown any big commitment to NYC. They pulled their flights from LGA and shifted a few JFK flights from LAX/SFO to other stations and can't grow at JFK. They are also on a steady path of becoming the weakest performer on every flight they have to/from NYC as compared to their competitors--now that WN has given up on that. An international partner at EWR is not going to be looking to AS as a partner. AS is a blip on the radar in the NY/NJ market.

channa

How do you define success? They are literally offering double miles on California transcons for the bulk of the year to anyone who registers. That's not a promotion of a successful route, that's desperation before they take other potentially more severe action.

As for international partners, there's minimal benefit for the AS customer base (on the West Coast) at EWR. Someone is not going to want to fly SFO-EWR-LHR or SEA-EWR-LHR when they can just fly nonstop SFO-LHR or SEA-LHR.

jiburi

Seem it is getting common to seeing airlines abandoning some presence in NYC. United has completely abandoned JFK, AA has significantly reduced JFK operations, and now Southwest abandoning EWR. While it might seem an opening at EWR is an opportunity for some airlines, I doubt there is little to gain for AS. Like other airlines, AS need to continue investing at highly prized JFK and trying to increasing market share there. If and only if JFK becomes unviable should they focus moving their New York operation. Anticipated loss of JFK Terminal 7 is unfortunate but it also signals the need for continual need for investment in JFK at the newly assigned JFK terminal. Keeping JFK viable in AS network is still foremost top priority.

Jiburi

formeraa

Funniest question of the day so far!!!!

WN is pulling out of EWR for a reason (they are probably LOSING money there). For AS, expansion at EWR would be the same as the current situation at DAL...not great!

worldwidedreamer

The thing is that with their current fleet of 737s, Alaska can't economically offer the same type of premium cabin service as UA, AA, DL and B6 on transcons. And unlike those airlines they don't have north/south flights on the East Coast. (Even B6 has LGB.) And the JFK lounge needs a staff upgrade, but that's a different thread...not to mention their lack of lounges at SFO+OAK+SJC+SAN+LAS+PHX. For price conscious (i.e. not super profitable) customers AS is a great choice to NY. For business travelers, I just don't see the value proposition.

diver858

With the move to SAN terminal 2E, AS Lounge members now have access to SAN | Airspace Lounge https://www.alaskaair.com/content/ai...tion-and-hours

eponymous_coward

WN already HAS an operation at OAK that it would take a LONG time for AS to build up to- it's taken AS years to be in the 10%ish range of pax count at SAN/SJC (WN's in the high 30 for SAN, low 50s for SJC, and in the 70s at OAK). WN thinks OAK-EWR is below SAN/SMF-Hawaii.

TBH, I don't think AS is doing all that well on SJC/SAN-EWR. I would guess they would cancel those routes before CA-Hawaii ones.

Yeah, and every single one of that group of EI, BA, CX, SQ, LY, FI, and EK has a better way to connect passengers into AS's network than EWR (all but one of them serves SEA, and LY serves SFO and LAX). Huh, do you want to flow pax HKG-SEA/SFO/LAX-PDX (with multiple daily frequencies to PDX), or HKG-EWR-PDX (which has ONE daily frequency on EWR-PDX, which might be timed rather poorly for connecting passengers)? Which is harder to fill and someplace where you might be willing to accept connecting pax, a flight to the NYC market or the SEA market?

worldwidedreamer

AS lounge members also have access to the PHX United Club, among others. AFAIK AS F passengers do not have access to third-party lounges, hence my original post calling out major west coast cities (including a hub and two focus cities) where the #mostwestcoast airline currently lacks their own lounges. Premium Cabin customers going to NY + BOS on competitors have lounge access from SF + LA...and in some cases even LAX-MIA or MSP-HNL. Alaska, which I think has an otherwise great product, just does not have the lounges to offer a competitive premium transcon product.

Eastbay1K

To be fair-ish, how was your B6 lounge experience? Exactly. That's my favorite transcon ride.

worldwidedreamer

As an American Express Platinum cardmember lovely: The Air France lounge at SFO has nice bubbles and noms, the lounges at Boston are nice albeit with that weird blue light, and the last time I visited JFK on B6 the Airspace lounge was just decent, although I've heard someone else is taking it over. The Escape lounges in OAK and RNO are just swell, too. AS does not offer OAK or RNO JFKs afaik, and B6 does.

As a counterpose: try getting into the AS lounge at JFK with Priority Pass, the AS terminal in Boston lacks a lounge (although there is a strange Priority Pass-connected dive bar just before security) and there is the whole debacle about how AS forgot to renew their lease or something at SFO, but at some point in the future we'll have one again.

rustykettel